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50 Indian Software firms with CMM5

Just happened to visit the below link.
It lists 50 Indian firms with CMM level 5

http://www.sei.cmu.edu/activities/cmm/high-maturity/HighMatOrgs.pdf

programmerhatingprocess
Friday, August 29, 2003

I'm more interested in knowing how many of those firms can pass The Joel Test.

John Rosenberg
Friday, August 29, 2003

and an "F" in streetwise requirements interpretation.

doobius
Friday, August 29, 2003

CMM 5 I believe means they use the same process for and PM system for every project. So?

Daniel Shchyokin
Friday, August 29, 2003

The Joel Test - like the IT world cares about the Joel Test!!!

Duex
Saturday, August 30, 2003

i think its time to open a new forum specially dedicated to outsourcing and the Indian software industry.

Michael Moser
Saturday, August 30, 2003

CMM is something for big companies and academics at SEI. Sounds great to business guys. There's not really much else to add, really. It doesn't have much to do with good software, unless the company has very poor capabilities to start with, which of course a lot of them do.

There's probably a good opportunity somewhere for highly priced CMM management software, like $100,000 a throw.


Saturday, August 30, 2003

I wonder what really is getting accomplished by CMM5.

I am currently working for BIG Indian IT company who is certified for CMM5 an now aiming for CMMi.

I have worked on CMM5 projects and what I have?
We have boring DP (Defect Prevention) meeting where nothing valuable gets added.

We have all sorts of matrics to follow. COQ (Cost Of Quality)should be x%, DIR (Defect Injection Rate) should be y% and all sort of bullshit. I really wonder what CMM5 really adds to quality of deliverables!

JD

http://jdk.phpkid.org

JD
Saturday, August 30, 2003

"I wonder what really is getting accomplished by CMM5."

a) Cost increases by a factor of 100%
b) Billing rates increase by a factor of 200%+
c) When things (still) go badly wrong, it's easier to figure out who to point the finger at.

Philo

Philo
Saturday, August 30, 2003

Please justify that comment, Philo.

And please tell us whether CMM Level 5 really helps companies write better software.

Karl Max
Saturday, August 30, 2003

Sorry, it was an off-the-cuff comment regarding the idea that for many companies, CMM (ISO, etc, etc) is just cargo cult engineering.

Philo

Philo
Saturday, August 30, 2003

Philo,
I don't know whether cost increases or not, but certainly billing rates go up!

In fact, when everyone in my company was FORCED to attend CMMi session, there was one IMP. point mentioned by tutor was that, we need to be at CMMi because of marketing reasons!

I can relate CMM to Joel Test.

Joel Test says that you ought to have Source control tool. CMM says that your project is at level 2 if you do configuration managment.

I guess CMM is just FANCY word which tries to tell you in all so complicated way how software project should work. But I guess it COMPLETELY fails at that!

JD
http://jdk.phpkid.org

JD
Saturday, August 30, 2003

Philo has nailed it. CMM is not about software quality; it's about big companies justifying their multi million dollar fees.


Saturday, August 30, 2003

No wonder more and more firms are outsourcing to India...
seems like 70's invasion by automakers from Japan with good quality is repeating again in software, this time from India..
when can american software companies learn about quality rather than trying to make a qucik buck with buggy software...

nancy
Sunday, August 31, 2003

Does anyone know if CMM5 firms have a strong track record of *always* delivering higher quality software on time and on budget? How does that budget compare to non-CMM5 development?

Philo

Philo
Sunday, August 31, 2003

CMM is not actually about delivering high quality software, or doing so on time and within budget. It's about big companies knowing what's happening in their development processes, so they can control it.

Obviously, they would normally try to control it to produce good software, but they won't necessarily succeed. CMM theoretically lets them know what's going on so they can fix it.

In a way, CMM is a pointer to the problems that most large companies have in developing software.


Sunday, August 31, 2003

As has been pointed out CMM allows a big company t know what is going on and also guarantees that certain processes will be followed, which is useful if you are sending out a job that requires lots of people to sing off the same hymn sheet.

Imagine you  are building a house in a place 5,000 kilometers away (not an idle example as I'm doing exactly that). You would want very clear processes in place so that you know your instructions are being  followed by all the sub-contractors.

Sure, it would cost you a fair bit more than just letting them get on with it, but you prefer to play safe because you are making considerable cost savings anyway.

Stephen Jones
Sunday, August 31, 2003

Oh wait a second - McDonald's is CMM5 compliant, right?

LOL! What a great comeback - "this company is CMM5 compliant!"
"Do you really know what that means? Let me point out that McDonald's is CMM5 compliant - would you really rather have them cater your wedding?"

[okay it may be a bit of FUD, but I think Joel's "Chefs vs. McDonald's" article is pretty on-the-spot here]

Philo

Philo
Sunday, August 31, 2003

I had a close encounter with CMM 3 once, when doing some outsourced work for a company in search of their certification. It was a sad sight.

I, personally, prefer to adhere to The Joel Test. It's simpler and really effective. Add some XP practices a gusto, and you have a really good process.

Leonardo Herrera
Sunday, August 31, 2003

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