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Boycott companies that offshore?

With everyone bitching about the offshoring and H-1B's, how come you never hear about anyone boycotting any of the worst offenders?

Rabble rouser
Thursday, August 07, 2003

Because the people who are complaining are programmers and not the end users? So what if 0.001% of the population boycotts every company on the planet.

www.marktaw.com
Thursday, August 07, 2003

The tech market is a circular industry, meaning that when Oracle yaps on about offshoring to get a short term pump and dump of their shares, who do you think are the people who are the reason for the adoption and continued use of Oracle products? Software developers, analysts, etc -- The people Oracle has so happily been abusing with H1Bs, and now with offshoring. Piss off the tech industry minds when they are your bread and butter and you're a very stupid organization (Oracle and Sun need no more examples of that though). Microsoft's Indian VP of something or other made some great show recently about offshoring, and shortly thereafter Microsoft announced a plan to hire thousands in the US : Clearly some a little higher up were not too pleased, and forsaw exactly what I mentioned above.

Jeepers
Thursday, August 07, 2003

Dumb question: What is an H1B?

Geert-Jan Thomas
Friday, August 08, 2003

H-1B Visa is a work visa that allows a trained professional to enter the US to work.

www.marktaw.com
Friday, August 08, 2003

Hmmm, How can I get one ? ;)

Geert-Jan Thomas
Friday, August 08, 2003

Boycott firms that offshore?  Gee, looks like you'll have no applicances, clothes, and basically every other consumer good.  Get a clue, offshoring (finding cheaper labor) has been going on for all of history, ever since the building of pyramids.  Only this time, YOU are the one getting fucked.  That's the only difference.

Bella
Friday, August 08, 2003

I agree with Bella.

www.marktaw.com
Friday, August 08, 2003

It's easy to boycott bad quality offshore stuff, but how do you boycott cheaper, better quality stuff? For a while the States were able to pull off a "Made In America" campaign after the "dumping of vcrs and tvs" in the 80s. But you know, I don't think it really worked--in the long term? I still buy Sony and can't wait for my Honda. I would just about never buy a RCA without some serious technical merit to back up such a device. Forcing yourself to buy higher cost, lower quality shit just won't cut it.

Anonymous
Friday, August 08, 2003

H1B has four major requirements:

1. Get internationally recognizable accredidation. If you have a BS in C.S. Do a reality check as too how good its reputation is abroad or within your country. Have your certificate translated and explained. Have your school name official translated by a consulate or something (so people can tell you don't come from some mail order DIY shop run by mom and pop)

2. Get a company to need you. It should be able to prove your skill is pretty unique and in terrific shortage. Your company can't find it in the local market and has documents showing they did try to find local talent (you have to give the local population the benefit of the doubt).

3. Get a company comfortable enough with hiring abroad (most are more than welling to exploit foreigners so this is easy). Have them offer you a job. And pay to have a lawyer to process you.

4. You should be able to live on your own without government assistance should you lose your job. You should be able to pay for a return ticket home. Bon voyage!

Anonymous
Friday, August 08, 2003

I don't normally chime in, but...

Offshoring in the software industry has very little to do with quality and more to do with lowering costs. Anything that is good for the stock in the short term is good, period. Long term thinking is useless to a CxO who is probably going to move on in two years anyway.

Are there really enough of us to join in a boycott that could have an effect in the short term? With the big corporations, I don't think so.

There is a myth going around that offshoring gets higher quality for less cost, but it is really not true. I guess sometimes the quality is good, but I've never seen it. But software quality is not really important to these companies. Sure they'll take it for free, but they won't pay for it. Why pay for something you don't really want? It is the same reason people bought Yugos.

So apparently American programmers have nothing to offer. We can't live on $5/hr and the "value add" most developers think they offer that sets them above their offshore counterparts really isn't in demand by pointy-haired bosses. I think the answer is to seek out software projects where outsourcing's benefits are outweighed by the drawbacks.

Tim Faust
Friday, August 08, 2003

I'm from Canada. Can I boycott American products?

David Clayworth
Friday, August 08, 2003

Go for it, David! Only buy Canadian.
And check back in after a month of nothing but bacon and Mike Myers movies and let us know how it's going...

[grinning, ducking, running]

Philo

Philo
Friday, August 08, 2003

And Alanis... And Neil Young... And...

yeah, okay...

CELINE DION!

OC
Friday, August 08, 2003

Good point. But then I'm guaranteed never to get Arnold Schwarzenegger as governor....

David Clayworth
Friday, August 08, 2003

Offshorers do still need local and specialist skills. Usually they're crucial to making the offshoring work.

At the moment, offshorers expect to get those skills at the old rates, or even at a slight discount due to the wonderful effect of offshoring.

But here's the secret. If offshorers DO want you, you've got them by the balls. Charge a fortune. Exclude training from your contract. (If they want you to do training of offshorers, charge 10 times your normal rate.)


Friday, August 08, 2003

> If offshorers DO want you, you've got them by the balls. Charge a fortune.

Right... becuase once they leave America to go to India it's not like they're ever gonna think of comparison shopping in India or even going to China or Russia.

www.marktaw.com
Saturday, August 09, 2003

I give India 5 - to - 10 years, then the wages there will catch up to the US.  Maybe a little longer in the SouthEastern Asian countries, but eventually it will all level.  The only country I'm concern about is China, the government there have full control and will exort that control over it's people.  This will keep wages low in China, even if wages do go up based on inflation it will be awhile for China.  Then again I could be wrong. 

However, my point is what will these offshoring companies do when wages finally get out of control in those third world countries.  Start charging more for their products here in the US? How do they expect US citizens with lower paying jobs to afford their products.  While the companies' bank rolls are getting fat, the US citizens especially are getting thin in their check books.

Boycott may not be the solution, and Bush's more emphases on training will only run in circles.  Meaning if more people got more training there will be more people vieing for the same jobs, which means jobs will be harder to come by.  There will no longer be a distinction between Joe with a BS and Stew with a BS, making a BS just all BS with no value. 

Solution is to level the playing field.  Offer offshoring and outsourcing.  However pay that person in India or Taiwan or Russia, or etc... the market rate it is here in the US, pay the same taxes.  Why short change them, and US workers at the same time.  If companies even the giant corporate ones start falling by the wayside, so be it.  It's called competition.  Only the best will survive.  New and stronger companies will arise from the ashes.  Then the economy can go forward, and globalization can be realize.  Every one will live happily ever after, and the Big Bad Wolf (Corporates) will be slain.

If not we will all be doing gardening and lawn care for the corporate cheese heads. 

Timmy Bryant
Thursday, May 13, 2004

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