Fog Creek Software
Discussion Board




Is Java a danger to your health?

Ok, this is not a religious post. Don't start a religious war here, please!
Today I was writing a servlet, a particularly hard piece of code. I wrote, debugged, deleted, wrote, deb.... you can see were I'm going.
After some 3 hours of this my wrists hurt like hell. They had been bent on an awkward position so I could hit the keys on the keyboard and they started to complain.

So... everyone know Java demands a lot of writing to finish the smallest task. Because of this, can we consider Java harmfull to our health? When I developed in PHP I don't remember feeling this pain. Nor when I wrote code in VB.
Any opinion guys?

RP
Monday, July 28, 2003

Java is successful because of 2 things:

1. it satisfies a market need reasonably well

2. the Sun mega-hype machine

For a moment, we shall ignore point 2 above, and we shall concentrate on point 1.

Your needs are probably very different from the market needs that created Java.

I know my needs are, too. I need to create fast program, with rich user interfaces and great access to the underlaying OS's features.

This is why Java frustrates me to no end.

But, if it fits a market need then it is successful.

John K.
Monday, July 28, 2003

In my experience, Java is much more harmful than cannabis.

zzz
Monday, July 28, 2003

JAVA KILLS

beware
Monday, July 28, 2003

Well, you see, Java may be very unpleasant. It certainly is unpleasant to me.

But, sometimes, some problems have to be solved regardless of how unpleasent it is to solve them. :)

Java is one of these (bitter) solutions.

John K.
Monday, July 28, 2003

It took you 3 hours to write "a particularly hard piece of code"? That sounds pretty good to me.

Your problems sound more like problems with your keyboard and chair.

Walter Rumsby
Monday, July 28, 2003

Jython.  When you just haven't got time for the pain.

Kent
Monday, July 28, 2003

Look at javadesk.com It is complete java-based web site.

Evgeny /Javadesk/
Tuesday, July 29, 2003

Java may cause death...

[From the MS EULA for Hotfix Checker]

15. NOTE ON JAVA SUPPORT. THE PRODUCT MAY CONTAIN SUPPORT FOR PROGRAMS WRITTEN IN JAVA. JAVA TECHNOLOGY IS NOT FAULT TOLERANT AND IS NOT DESIGNED, MANUFACTURED, OR INTENDED FOR USE OR RESALE AS ONLINE CONTROL EQUIPMENT IN HAZARDOUS ENVIRONMENTS REQUIRING FAIL-SAFE PERFORMANCE, SUCH AS IN THE OPERATION OF NUCLEAR FACILITIES, AIRCRAFT NAVIGATION OR COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS, AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL, DIRECT LIFE SUPPORT MACHINES, OR WEAPONS SYSTEMS, IN WHICH THE FAILURE OF JAVA TECHNOLOGY COULD LEAD DIRECTLY TO DEATH, PERSONAL INJURY, OR SEVERE PHYSICAL OR ENVIRONMENTAL DAMAGE.

:-)

Sam Strachan
Tuesday, July 29, 2003

Just remember you are using Java because there's something you can do with Java which you can't accomplish using something else. So, it can just be called a necessary evil. About health, take some breaks off the keyboard and it'll help.

Ask the guys of VC++ (myself included) how much code we have to write just to get a nice looking pink color in the Combo box. And I'm certainly not the one complaining.

The One You Loved (TOYL)
Tuesday, July 29, 2003

To put it in terms I prefer, Java is a nice alternative to VC++ in that there is a lot less code to write.  There are trade-offs with any language and Java is no different.  I use Java when I need to write something platform independent, such as the Oracle Trace File parser I am currently working on.
Thus far there is no definite means to write VB or C# on unix so I have had to stick to Java.  Having said that though, I like the syntax and writing code in textpad certainly makes you more disciplined. 

Jason Brown
Wednesday, July 30, 2003

> Thus far there is no definite means to write VB or C# on unix so I have had to stick to Java.

It seems you havent' yet discovered the Mono project!?

http://www.go-mono.org/

I've compiled a faily complex command-line app using Microsoft's C# compiler and executed that same binary on a GNU/Linux machine with mono installed.

Microsoft also does something .NET-ish on FreeBSD called "Rotor" but it looks a bit dodgy.

Mono is complete for command-line use. The limitation is in its System.Windows.Forms support which is advancing nicely but still incomplete.

Foo Bar
Saturday, August 02, 2003

Thanks for the tip, I have heard of Mono but have had little time to look at it due to my current workload.  Unfortunately the system I am in the middle of writing requires a reasonable GUI, so Java is the option to go with at the moment. 

Jason Brown
Tuesday, August 05, 2003

Now that Novell has acquired Ximian hopefully mono's Windows.Forms support will advance more rapidly, removing the number of reasons to use Java instead.  ;-)
The User Interface issue is one reason i'm holding back, but Microsoft's implementation will do for the time being.

SWT does make UI development with Java somewhat less painful I have to admit. Swing and AWT don't really feel very responsive although IntelliJ Idea does have a nice zippy UI and it seems to use one of those two.

Foo Bar
Tuesday, August 05, 2003

Unfortunately, I have no real IDE to work with, Textpad is useful but my employer draws the line at buying an IDE for a single project.  I can't complain really as pretty much anything I need I just have to ask for and it gets purchased.  My employer is a FAST partner so the licensing side of things has to be immaculate.

I had Forte for a while but there was a major speed issue with it.  I could write a small window app that had no functionality, just the JFrame and a few menu options with no code behind them and it would take 5-10 minutes to compile and run from the forte IDE, with textpad it took a couple of seconds max.  My laptop is no slouch at 1.7GHz P4, 512MB DDR RAM and XP Pro. .NET 2003 runs fairly fast on it, not so with Forte.  I guess there could have been a setting I missed, but I don't think so.  Shame really because it really casts a shadow on a language that is otherwise pretty enjoyable to use.

Jason Brown
Thursday, August 07, 2003

Eclipse is quite a nice free IDE. Free as in Beer and Speech.
Not really a RAD tool (more like Emacs), but jolly good IMO.
It appears to have some nifty things for Java development, like integrated ant builds.

http://www.eclipse.org/

Its Open Source, has IBM hackers working on it and leading the development process and really measures up quite well against tools like IntelliJ Idea IMHO.

There even appears to be a C# plugin which hooks up with mono.

But then again there is always the mighty vim.. *cough cough*... ok, I'll shut up now before an emacs versus vi holy war starts :-)

Foo Bar
Thursday, August 07, 2003

I've downloaded eclipse and will be testing it over the next few days.  I will let you know how I get on with it.  Thanks for all your help with this ;-)

Jason Brown
Tuesday, August 12, 2003

*  Recent Topics

*  Fog Creek Home