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music once more

I have decided it makes perfect sense to speak to my boss about the guy playing music without headphones. First I want to get some idea of what is considered normal in various offices. If most offices have a policy that you can't play music in a cubicle without headphones, then I can tell my boss it's normal to have that policy.
I hope some of the managers and developers here at JOS will say what the policy is at their office, so I'll have plenty of data.

The Real PC
Saturday, July 05, 2003

Yes, almost every office in the world has a policy that employees may not play their own music through a loud speaker. Even in a radio station, the DJs wear headphones.

So, go get em and report back how this thing was settled amicably.

Tony Chang
Sunday, July 06, 2003

You'll need one of these, too:
http://www.swingline.com/html/1695.html

Philo

Philo
Sunday, July 06, 2003

Our policy is:  If the stupid shits noise is impeding my work, in any way, then he shuts the hell up.  And it only takes one conversation.  PLEASE get off your ass and settle this, woodya!  :-)

Incidently, that was a mis-guided but wholely satisfying attempt at motivation.

Our Team of Programmer
Sunday, July 06, 2003

"Even in a radio station, the DJs wear headphones."

That's to prevent feedback from speaker to microphone. I've worked radio, as have a few of my friends. When not speaking, they don't use headphones. They use the overhead speakers. The speakers automatically cut out when the microphone is turned on.

On topic, every cube-farm I've been forced to suffer has had a "no music" policy. In fact, it wasn't until it became common to have sound built onto the motherboard that I ever had a sound card in my work machines. Definitely never been provided a set of speakers, ever.

Brad Wilson (dotnetguy.techieswithcats.com)
Sunday, July 06, 2003

Brad, does that include if you brought in your own radio and headphones? I have a friend who worked at a place like that - I can't believe management could be so incredibly reactionary.

When I was working on a dev team of 6-7 people we had our own enclosed area - in there we had an MP3 server and speakers. :-)

Philo

Philo
Sunday, July 06, 2003

Wow! What an amazing coincidence you were able to find 7 people with exactly the same taste in music.

Cause if everybody didn't have identical taste ,there was probably at least a coulpe who were being driven crazy and felt they couldn't get their work done but didn't want to sy anything.

why are we even listening to this station
Sunday, July 06, 2003

MP3 server. With an MP3 repository. I know for a fact that every member of the team had contributions in there, and we just had it running on "shuffle"

There were some songs I didn't care for, but nothing so bizarre that it kept me from concentrating.

Philo

Philo
Sunday, July 06, 2003

Setting something up like that is illegal... I read a case where the RIAA forced a company to give them a million bucks because their employees ran an mp3 server.

That said, my co-workers and I traded mp3's all the time... It's a good way to broaden your musical horizons.

www.marktaw.com
Sunday, July 06, 2003

I have to say, I wish the RIAA were more sensible and just said "If you have an MP3 on your machine, you had better have the physical CD in your library, in case we audit you."

I realize CDs aren't liscensed this way, but it would be a better starting point.  There are people like myself who like to keep things basically legal, but with computers and music these days, the music industry makes it hard.

Contrary Mary
Sunday, July 06, 2003

Mark, do you have a cite on that? I find it hard to believe I haven't heard of it.

I can believe if IBM set up a server for their whole company they'd be nabbed for licensing fees, since they're effectively running a radio station. But when we're only playing over speakers, it could've easily been a portable stereo with CD's.

Granted, the project lead didn't go around and verify every MP3 came from a CD, but I know that most of them came from CD collections.

Philo

Philo
Sunday, July 06, 2003

This thread is stupid.  Grow some balls.  Like I said in an earlier thread.  Why come on this board and spill your problems on everyone else.  Go cry on your mom's shoulder.

Momma's Boy
Sunday, July 06, 2003

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=riaa+%22mp3+server%22

www.marktaw.com
Sunday, July 06, 2003

.. Slashdot is the 2nd link:

http://slashdot.org/articles/02/04/09/237230.shtml?tid=141


"nkruse pointed out that our pals as the RIAA are breaking new ground. According to this Reuters Article, the RIAA has succeeded in collecting 1 million US dollars from Arizona based Integrated Information Systems. IIS apparently had a corporate MP3 repository on it's network. This is the first time I've heard about the RIAA doing this kind of thing. Looks like they're taking a page from the BSA handbook. "

From the Reuters Article:

"Big Brother is listening!

That's the message the recording industry hoped to send on Tuesday by announcing it had collected $1 million from a company that let employees swap songs on an internal server.

Arizona-based Integrated Information Systems Inc., which ran a dedicated server permitting employees to access and distribute thousands of music files over the company network, agreed to pay the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) $1 million rather than face the music in court."

www.marktaw.com
Sunday, July 06, 2003

That's obviously a completely different scenario than what Philo described.

SomeBody
Sunday, July 06, 2003

The onus on being a good neighbor is definitely on the music player. At the very least, playing music through speakers a the workspace can be extremely rude and distracting.

pb
Monday, July 07, 2003

Slightly offtopic but relating to the licencing of music

I currently have a subscription to an online music distributor ( http://www.emusic.com ), this lets me download albums and single tracks, I can choose whether to burn or just keep that downloaded music as files.  There is no extraneous licence with those images, nothing to show where they came from.

There is no practicable way, in some future time, for me to prove that I downloaded some particular track under subscription or whether I ripped it myself or was given it by some third party.

Simon Lucy
Monday, July 07, 2003

To get back to the original question: A "no music" policy is standard in shared environments. Some people do sneak in their personal stuff with headphones, but when there is a complaint it is very clear who is at fault.
I personaly do not mind people listening to stuff on headphones, as long as I can hear it. Some headphones seem to be designed to act as speakers; you hear more at the outside than the wearer himself. When someone brings in a pair of these, I have them banned before the into of the first song is over.

Just me (Sir to you)
Monday, July 07, 2003

"as long as I can hear it."

That should of course be: "as long as I can >NOT< hear it".

Just me (Sir to you)
Monday, July 07, 2003

[A "no music" policy is standard in shared environments.]

That's what I suspected. I can continue trying to reason with the guy, buy him expensive headphones, etc. But I'm right and he is wrong. And every day I have to bother with this my work gets delayed, and/or I make mistakes I would not have made otherwise. It makes me look bad, and all because I'm letting someone have their way who is doing something wrong.

The Real PC
Monday, July 07, 2003

"To get back to the original question: A "no music" policy is standard in shared environments. Some people do sneak in their personal stuff with headphones, but when there is a complaint it is very clear who is at fault."

Do these shared environments also have a "no phone call" and "no talking" policy? I find those FAR more disruptive than music.

Or are we once again being reactionary about "work is work and dammit if I catch ANYONE enjoying themselves there will be hell to pay"?

Sorry - I'm reacting to the label of "no music" instead of what *I* think it should be - "no disruption", and the concept of having to "sneak" headphones into work.

Philo

Philo
Monday, July 07, 2003

Have you actually raised the issue with him yet ?

Damian
Monday, July 07, 2003

Just go and talk to him, or your boss, and quit whining to us.
From your description, it seems that you are in the right, so do something about it!

tech writer guy (UK)
Monday, July 07, 2003

Philo,

you are right of course that it is all in the spirit of "no disruptions". I would also react against the person calling his mates all day, or the morons having a belching contest across the cubicle walls. I guess those things are so obvious they don't get "policized".

Real PC,

go to your boss and complain. Do it NOW!
They alrady know he is a jerk and highly disruptive. That is why he got the office last time. What they do not know is that it is bothering you so much:

-----------
- We need a new office for Harry, the new assistent manager.
- Hmm, let's see. Nothing empty, but we still got Bob Noxcious in office nr. 8.
- Yes, I know, but we put him in there because he was a nuiscance to his co workers.
- Hmmm, we realy need that space though. Let's see. Why don't we put him with the most tolerant people. Try it for a while. If there's no cmplaints, we're fine. Otherwise, we'll have to think of something else. Let's see. Real PC is a nice guy. Very open. Maybe it will work out. Wadda ya think? Give it a go?
- Hmmm, OK.
-----------
Close this browser, get out of your chair and go.
NOW!

Just me (Sir to you)
Monday, July 07, 2003

Just Me,
Yes I agree with you I should do it right now, not later, this minute...
I'm trying to figure out how much it really bothers me. Is it worth complaining. Maybe when it drove me crazy last week it was because I was tired.
It isn't really loud. But yes, it is very annoying. I have hardly thought about anything else and have been at work for an hour.
I'm not at all afraid to complain. But I got lots of advice here and on other forums saying to handle it myself rather than complain to the boss.
So now I'm thinking it over again.

The Real PC
Monday, July 07, 2003

Real PC,

no offence, but are you just trolling?
You have posted now what, 5 treads on this and now you are wondering wether it realy bothers you?

This topic is closed I guess.

Just me (Sir to you)
Monday, July 07, 2003

Hey Real PC - what's your real name? I want to know so I can make sure we never hire you.

As team lead, I find people like you to be an absolute headache I don't need. Bob Noxious would be in that category too - except I might actually have more respect for him since he probably doesn't shiver like an abused chihuahua if I talk to him.

Now go deal with it before everybody else loses every last shred of respect they might have for you.

Burninator
Monday, July 07, 2003

As I just said, I am not afraid to tell Bob or the boss it's bothering me. As I just said, it does bother me. As I just said, I got lots of advice saying do not speak to the boss.
Why?

The Real PC
Monday, July 07, 2003

> So now I'm thinking it over again

These symptoms are reminding me of the "Family disease" described at http://al-anon.alateen.on.ca/for-you/help4.html ... I guess the good news for you is that authority listened to you when you talked about smoking ... it's possible that they're reasonable and will do the same when you talk about noise ... I don't see that they have any incentive to allow the music.

I think it's polite to Bob though if you ask him first to turn it off, before you escalate it by taking it to your boss.

Also I'd do it all orally, NOT via emails.

Christopher Wells
Monday, July 07, 2003

>> Do these shared environments also have a "no phone call" and "no talking" policy? I find those FAR more disruptive than music.  <<

Great point!  I often have to crank my music at work simply to drown out the other distractions. 

SomeBody
Monday, July 07, 2003

Talking and phone calls are occasional, music can be constant.
There have been complaints here about people talking on the phone too much. I never complained about that because talking doesn't bother me.

The Real PC
Monday, July 07, 2003

I'm glad my web browser allows me to write web filters. This serial thread has inspired me to learn how to write the filters so that I can automatically filter out posts by Real PC. Technology is wonderful.

Taking the Initiative
Monday, July 07, 2003

Dear taking the initiative,
                                    Wouldn't your filter mean that the whole thread  be wafted into the hot air chamber as opposed to just Real PC's "contributions"?

                                    Could you give more details?

Stephen Jones
Tuesday, July 08, 2003

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