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ee or cs?

im currently a sophmore at cu, in the school of business, and i'm gonna transfer to the school of engineering.  Im considering either cs or ee.  Can u guys tell me the differnce between the 2, like the ciricculum(mispelled)
, and the type of jobs u get with each degree.

THANKS!

joe

Joemcyntier
Wednesday, June 25, 2003

Your most urgent need is to take some English classes.

Your spelling, grammar and punctuation are atrocious and, no matter how smart a fellow you are, they make you sound like a moron.

I'm not saying you are one, just that it's the impression you'll give.

Joe
http://www.joegrossberg.com

Joe Grossberg
Wednesday, June 25, 2003

For the record, please use: 'you' and 'curriculum'.  We're professionals here.  If you know a word is mispelled, dictionary.com is a click away.

Secondly, if you're not even going to bother checking out any universities' EE or CS web sites for program information, what makes you think you'll keep up with the fast-changing industry you choose?

*Sigh*
Wednesday, June 25, 2003

They're not fast-changing. EE has been using transistors and resistors for decades, and binary's been around since what, Babylonian times?

"Fast changing" geez.

Philo

Philo
Wednesday, June 25, 2003

What is CU?

Tim Lara
Wednesday, June 25, 2003

can't be cooper union, they don't have business.

what's with the snooty grammer and spelling police? this isn't an official document, it's a forum.

www.MarkTAW.com
Wednesday, June 25, 2003

Because there's a minimum standard for spelling, punctuation, and grammar that everybody online in an english-speaking forum is held to.  Beneath that limit, most folks get a headache trying to parse the text, so nobody's going to want to read it.

Flamebait Sr.
Wednesday, June 25, 2003

Programmers often like consistency (if they didn't, they'd talk with people instead of computers). I can read "im" or "Im" or "I'm" but to read all three in one post is remarkable.

Christopher Wells
Wednesday, June 25, 2003

MarkTAW --  Regarding the spelling mistakes, for me there's also an issue of care and importance:  if the poster doesn't care enough about his request or think it's important enough to take the time to phrase it properly and review for mistakes, then why would I think it's important enough for me to respond to?

In addition to the previous errors or sloppy writing pointed out, He leaves out the apostrophe in his first "I'm", and misspells "difference" and "sophomore".  All within the space of a few sentences.

Joe -- Someone else can give you a better answer than I can, but with an EE degree you'd be much more likely to end up as an engineer, designing equipment or "hardware" that isn't even necessarily computer related and which probably won't even require any programming knowledge.  Calculus will be a commonly used tool.  There is a core set of knowledge that's typically taught to any sort of engineer, so the first couple of years in an engineering program will be much the same regardless of whether you're aiming to be an EE, mechanical engineer, civil engineer, etc.

With a CS degree you'd be more likely to end up writing or designing software.  Your focus will be on programming and the systems and tools that are associated with it.  You won't depend as heavily on calculus or mathematics.  You'll experience some of the same career problems and benefits that are talked about on the many posts in this forum.  In fact, one good idea would be to review lots of old posts here to find some of the many that discuss the good and bad aspects of being a software developer.  (The posts are mostly regarding the bad aspects, but that doesn't mean there aren't good aspects.)

Herbert Sitz
Wednesday, June 25, 2003

I'll give you the Im im i'm thing - consistency within the same post isn't a good sign, but a lot of people on the internet are used to shorthanding things. "u" is a common replacement for "you" simply because it saves time. The same with not capping the first letter in a sentance or proper word, and I would also with leaving punctuation off of words like I'm.

Forums are interesting in that they occasionally cross over into an almost chat-like feel, and I figure they're susceptible to the chat-like conveniences I just mentioned.

Has anyone here been in a chat where you can see what the other person is typing as they're typing it? It borders on a completely new form of communication.

www.MarkTAW.com
Wednesday, June 25, 2003

Hahah ... until this post came up, I didn't notice that, without exception, the regulars on this forum use immaculate spelling and grammar.

Anyways, to answer the question ...

EE is focused on circuits, a subset of which is computer hardware or ASIC design -- but also includes things like three-phase power and analog circuit design.  CS is primarily about software.

CE is usually a cross between the  two, in which you take courses from both disciplines ... but it depends on the college you attend.  I graduated in CE, and I believe that it is less gruelling than CS (in that I didn't have to take stay-up-all-night-coding courses like Compilers or Operating Systems) -- while the working world recognizes it as functionally equivalent to a CS degree.

Alyosha`
Wednesday, June 25, 2003

Give him a break, guys, he's from the business school [g,d,r] ...

As far as "u" being a quick way to write "you" ... maybe it depends on your typing skills, but I've never found that typing the two extra keys an onerous burden.  It takes me almost the same time to type.  I can understand shortening "through" to "thru", but "you" to "u" is just ... lazy ...

Alyosha`
Wednesday, June 25, 2003

Don't most colleges and universities have their curricula online by now?

www.MarkTAW.com
Wednesday, June 25, 2003

um, ok tkxs for da advice,

that is coo,

im a gonna do a ee.  BTW, i know lots of ee majors, and they do program, but in hdls.

bye bye

Joemcyntier
Wednesday, June 25, 2003

Should have known not to feed the /. troll

Boy oh boy...
Wednesday, June 25, 2003

Joemcyntier wrote, "...the type of jobs u get with each degree."

Well, you can get a programming job with either degree if that is what you want to do for a living. Personally, I feel a software engineering degree is the most appropriate degree to obtain (if available) for people who want to program computers for a living. Many moronic HR types currently require job candidates to have a computer science degree for open programming positions within the company they work for simply because they don't know the difference between a computer scientist and a software engineer.

One Programmer's Opinion
Wednesday, June 25, 2003

That's funny how everyone bashes the original poster for poor grammar punctuation and how they didn't want to respond because of that, yet created the whole thread.

Wouldn't it be easier just to ignore? :)

Passater
Wednesday, June 25, 2003

It like the episode of the Simpsons where the scientist shouts 'PI is exactly 3' to get everybody's attention :-)

Ged Byrne
Wednesday, June 25, 2003

no, cause i want an answer genius

Joemcyntier
Wednesday, June 25, 2003

Passater, maybe that's something to keep in mind when writing cover letters and sending resume's.

Not that anyone would do either with bad grammar, but if you shorthand too much, it becomes transparent.

www.MarkTAW.com
Wednesday, June 25, 2003

"no, cause i want an answer genius"

Sorry, the answer genius isn't here today.  Try again tomorrow, please.

English Jenyus
Wednesday, June 25, 2003

Not to sound to snotty, but the correct answer is "neither".  EE and CS majors drop out and become business majors.  I've never heard of it happening the other way.

EE and CS are tough (EE more so, IMHO, and yes, I did both).  For one thing, if you are switching now, you're gonna be in college for another four years; the classes you've already taken are going to be pretty much irrelevant.  For another thing, if you didn't have enough interest to enroll in engineering and start taking EE or CS off the bat, odds are you don't have enough interest to tough it out.

Sounds snotty, but it's true.

David
Wednesday, June 25, 2003

fu,

i can tough it out u idiot.

U dont even know me fuckface.

Go fuck urself u computer nerd

Joemcyntier
Wednesday, June 25, 2003

Fine.  Prove it to us snotty "computer nerds" by going out there and earning yourself a CS or EE degree.  While you're at it, pick up some clues on how to properly use the English language.  The real world doesn't take kindly to pager-speak.

Go get 'em, tiger.

David
Wednesday, June 25, 2003

Thought I'd chime in as another computer engineering grad.  As was said earliler, we straddle EE and CS so I think I've got a pretty good idea of the differences and similarities between the fields.

For EE, you can get work in analog things like power generation/transmission, amplifiers, radio and wireless, telecommunications (at the physical level).  The hot field is wireless of course.  The main tools here are simulators like SPICE and Monte Carlo analysis etc.

You can also do digital things like build hardware using microcontrollers to control things like televisions, cable boxes, telephone switch exchanges, Teddy Ruxpin dolls and anything with circuits inside.  You might also design chips used inside of cuircuits instead of hooking them up (often ASICs or FPGAs).  You will use digital simulations instead of analog and maybe a hardware description language like Verilog or VHDL.  I don't know many EEs who have to draft their own circuits any more.

Finally some EEs drift into software, especially low level or real time things that touch hardware.  Embedded software or firmware are possibilities.

In engineering you will learn things that you might think are peripherally related to your job.  For example, first year is usually a solid grounding in math and physical sciences.  Second year will be more math, more science and basic, general engineering skills (like reading plans and drawings, basic electrical circuits, basic mechanics and motion, system analysis, numerical computation, maybe thermodynamics and fuild mechanics or power depending on your school).  Third year is often very tough and specific to your discipline.  For EEs it might include more electronics (including semiconductor theory and more transistor circuits etc), digital logic, more math (more calculus, Fourier and Laplace transforms etc.),  electro-magnetics, signal analysis, basic communication and information theory etc.  Fourth year you might specialize more in a particular area, like communication, radio, amplifiers etc.

CS doesn't have quite as straightforward a list of job possibilities and educational path because it is much wider and more varied.

You will probably take some object oriented programming,  math (comlexity of algorithms, graph theory, automata, formal methods etc), data structures,  operating systems, compiler construction, databases, software engineering, networks, algorithms, distributed and parallel computing. 

But CS can vary so much, it's hard to decide what might be a good foundation so you will have to see what your school specifically offers.

I haven't met very many CS students writing low level software, that seems to be dominated by engineers for some reason.  If you read Joel's software forum you can get an idea of what CS people might do; there was a thread about this a little while back.

A lot of CS grads seem to go into database stuff, either administration or accessing DBs for middleware, web services and so on.  Some write desktop software, but that seems to be a smaller part of the job market now.  Some people write business process software.  There's networking and computer security too.  The range is fairly wide.

In general, I tend to think of the difference between CS and engineering as being CS grads tend to write software that talks to other software, engineers tend to write software that talks to physical things.

Hope this helps a bit.

radius
Thursday, June 26, 2003

I thought it might also be worthwhile to mention that if you have a choice, it might be better to sign up for EE.  People often drop from EE to CS but it seems extremely rare to have it happen in the reverse.  Whether this is from the prejudice of faculties, supply/demand to study those disciplines or the quality of the students, I don't know.

radius
Thursday, June 26, 2003

Radius - it's the difficulty of the discipline. EE requires more math and physics than any other degree outside Math and Physics. The concepts are extremely ephemeral and difficult for many to grasp.

CS, on the other hand, is often a "plug n' play" discipline - you can directly understand what you're doing (especially if you can duck or weasel through pointers and recursion).

Philo

Philo
Thursday, June 26, 2003

Philo,
        I don't think cs is a 'plug-n-play' discipline . Remember Joel and his law of leaky Abstraction ?

indian programmer
Thursday, June 26, 2003

Hmm my CS course required more maths than the EE courses, but then we did a lot of formal proofs of program correctness (see the http://www.dcs.qmul.ac.uk/research/theory/ pages for the kind of stuff we did)
It does help that head of department was Peter Landin who was involved with Tony Hoare on Program verification and semantics. (I learned to loath the phrase "Introduction to" and "Elementary" on book covers at university)

While browsing around I found the following paper http://www.odl.qmul.ac.uk/dynamic/stud/R_Bornat.htm which is the CS101 lecturers advice to new computer science students (well worth reading)

Peter Ibbotson
Thursday, June 26, 2003

HMMMMM,

well, thanks for your answers, very helpful.
I do like programming but I don't like it enough that i would enjoy being a cs major.  So, im going to go for EE.  IT will be a challenge, but it can't be much harder than business.  I mean business is like almost impossible.  WoW!  I had to take business stat, and i almost died.  I mean, how do u find the mean of a set of numbers???? way to technical for me.  :-)


Thanks,
JOE!

Joemcyntier
Thursday, June 26, 2003

That was sarcasm in your last post right?  Please tell me it was, otherwise your dead. 

grover
Thursday, June 26, 2003

no, it really is hard!


jk


i own business stat!!!!
how many of u people can say that????



Joe

Joemcyntier
Thursday, June 26, 2003

We could all say it, provided we forgot how to speak English.

English Jenyus
Thursday, June 26, 2003

not sure if that was a snobby response or not.

If (snobby response)

FU!!

else

end 1

Joemcyntier
Thursday, June 26, 2003

If that's how you code, go for the EE degree.

English Genyus
Thursday, June 26, 2003

was that supposed to be funny?

Joemcyntier
Thursday, June 26, 2003

Joe,

Have you ever wondered whether your whole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others?

Troll feeder
Friday, June 27, 2003

fu

Joemcyntier
Friday, June 27, 2003

This must be what the Algonquin Roundtable was like, don't you think?

English Jenyus
Friday, June 27, 2003

Joe:

What attracts you to electrical and/or computer engineering?  Fast-forwarding a few years, what do you picture as your ideal job?

As a graduate from an electrical and computer engineering curriculum, I cannot stress enough the dedication it will require.  If you are not 100% committed, it is likely you will fail.

What is your high-school and college background?  Did you take chemistry, physics, and calculus in high school?  Have you taken these courses in college?

One thing to keep in mind is that switching to an engineering major now will require a lot of catch-up.  At a minimum starting out, you'll likely need to take Calculus I and II, Physics I and II, Chemistry, and one or more higher math courses such as Differential Equations (unless, of course, you AP'd out of one or more of these).

These are all courses I took as a first-year student, and although I didn't know it at the time, these were the EASY ones!

I just wanted to give you a word of warning before you went off and spent your valuable time and money going down the engineering path.  You will certainly find a stark contrast between the level of difficulty of a business degree and that of an engineering degree.

Dave
Saturday, June 28, 2003

FU dave

Joemcyntier
Monday, June 30, 2003

Good luck there, kid.  You're going to need it, regardless of your chosen career path.

I'm glad I spent my valuable time trying to help you out.

Dave
Monday, June 30, 2003

fu noob

Joemcyntier
Wednesday, July 02, 2003

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