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Microsoft has purchased a major Romanian software

I am a software developer in Romania, East Europe.

The news I heard today made me very proud - so I am reproducing them here:

Microsoft has purchased the RAV antivirus from the GeCAD company, for an undisclosed sum which is estimated between 10 - 20 million dollars.

GeCAD is a Romanian company, and the RAV antivirus is completely designed and made in Romania.

Microsoft has bought the whole RAV division. As far as I know, most of the Romanian engineers who worked on RAV are now hired by Microsoft.

A link to more information is: http://www.rav.ro/pages/shownews.php?i=153

Romanian programmers ROCK!

John K.
Wednesday, June 11, 2003

So what? You want a medal? ;-) Actually when I was a trainer I delivered a VB course (up in Cluj-Napoca I think) and was impressed at how bright the attendees were -- brighter than the average London financial industry developer anyway.

Duncan Smart
Wednesday, June 11, 2003

Cluj Napoca-- you mean Kolozsvár?

Martha
Wednesday, June 11, 2003

I have no idea what you are talking about.

It's Cluj-Napoca, a city in Romania, inhabited mainly by Romanian people.

XTG
Wednesday, June 11, 2003

Yeah, ghee thanks!  You Romanian hackers write code that works so well, that keeps our networks free of so many virii, and ultimately makes my job that much easier that Microsoft buys you up and we can't use your software anymore.  Thanks. ;-)

Andrew Burton
Wednesday, June 11, 2003

> So what? You want a medal? ;-)

No. I want the Romanian programmers to gain recognition as excellent programmers. Which they really are.

John K.
Wednesday, June 11, 2003

Cluj Napoca (romanian) = Kolozsvár (hungarian)

The same city but hungarian (a major ethnic group in Romania) name.

Szász Attila
Thursday, June 12, 2003

Oh, and if we want the recognition, we should prove ourselfs. Respect should be earned, not demanded.

Szász Attila
Thursday, June 12, 2003

ooch. again. a false pride.
is there anything in yourself you can be produ of? or it's just the country where everybody do their work? so you are proud of somebody else work.

na
Thursday, June 12, 2003

Dear John K.,
                    The fact that MS has bought a Romanian company doesn't prove that Romanian programmers are good, it merely proves that those Romanian programmers probably were, just as the fact that they didn't buy you up doesn't mean you are a hopeless case.

Stephen Jones
Thursday, June 12, 2003

And here's another view on the matter from Woody's Office Watch.

---"Microsoft says it will buy a relatively obscure Romanian anti-virus company called GeCAD, purveyors of the (also obscure, but well regarded) RAV AntiVirus package (http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2003/Jun03/06-10GeCadPR.asp). Ahem. "In addition to developing new solutions, Microsoft will use the GeCAD engineering expertise and technology to enhance the Windows platform and extend support for third-party antivirus vendors so they can provide customers with increasingly secure and comprehensive levels of virus protection."

I guess the story may play that way in Bucharest, but out in the rest of the world there's a lot of conjecture that Microsoft will enter the antivirus software business and soon take it over, the same way it took over the font business and the browser business and the... well, you get the idea.

GeCAD's Web site says the company employs about 100 professionals in Bucharest. In addition to peddling RAV AntiVirus, the company also provides consulting services and sells Symantec, Corel, Macromedia, Novell and AutoCad products. RAV AntiVirus is a platform-independent engine, with specific versions for Exchange, Linux mail servers, Groupwise, Windows servers, Novell servers - even MSN Messenger, ICQ, AIM, and Yahoo Messenger.

What's wrong with this picture? Microsoft is buying antivirus software technology for Linux, Novell, and AIM?

I remember an 18-month-old column from John Dvorak in PC Mag (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,235,00.asp ). Quoth John: "I think Microsoft will incorporate antivirus software into its system for marketing reasons that are directly related to the company's .NET strategy. I also suspect that Microsoft will license the software from an existing antivirus company and put it under the Microsoft label, but that's not important. What is important is the underlying reason for all this-and it's not computer security. Microsoft wants people to get used to the idea of 24/7 online connections to Microsoft."

Score another one for Dvorak." ------

Stephen Jones
Thursday, June 12, 2003

> Oh, and if we want the recognition, we should prove > ourselfs. Respect should be earned, not demanded.

We have proven ourselves. We have just sold that thing to MS. :) Which is quite a recognition.


> ooch. again. a false pride.

Let's say that you are from the US.

When a US athlete wins the olympics, you are not proud?

When the US had the #1 space program in the world, weren't the US people proud of this formidable achievement?

So, it is not a false pride. Not at all!


Also - normaly I wouldn't have posted the RAV news to this forum. But there were discussions, in this forum, comparing programmers from different countries.

And people wrote all kind of things - for example, they wrote that Indian programmers are better than East Europe programmers for some reasons which I consider completely false.

So - I am doing something to change the opinion about programmers in East Europe.

The programmers in East Europe (including Romania) are very good - many companies working with the in the US say that they are better than Indians.

It's just that the Indians started a lot earlier and gained recognition. I'm not saying that the Indian programmers don't deserve that recognition. I am saying that programmers in Romania and East Europe also deserve this recognition.

So, normally, I wouldn't have posted the news about RAV here. But this thing angered me.


> is there anything in yourself you can be produ of? or
> it's just the country where everybody do their work?
> so you are proud of somebody else work.

Yes, there are several things I have done that I can be proud of.

I run a software company which I started with zero capital, worked hard, and now I have a good product and now I employ 5 other people.

I work hard to thrieve on the international software market, and hope that one day we shall have several million dollars in revenue per year.

John K.
Thursday, June 12, 2003

I don't see how you can make any generalisations about the competence of people based on nothing more than where they live and work

John Topley (www.johntopley.com)
Thursday, June 12, 2003

So, what's your product? I am curious to see if there is any reason to believe the multimillion/year claim.

King K
Thursday, June 12, 2003

I've worked with a few Romanians, and I thought they were pretty cool, running their linux machines with transparent windows and generally writing solid code.  Seemed very receptive to the "newer" things.  But that of course means nothing since I only worked with Romanans once.

The rumor is that the soviets invested heavily in computer-related math and education because they neglected to invest in hardware, so their only chance was to use hardware more efficiently.  I wonder if that's true.

I don't see why anyone would say e. europeans are worse programmers than any others, it's not like anyone believes they're genetically inferior.  Few people have really the experience to even compare objectively.

sammy
Thursday, June 12, 2003

Hey guys, I saw this news on another site - and I immediately thought "cool - good on them".  There's definitely some smart cookies in Romania. 

It's definitely noteworthy.  So far as I know Bucharest is a long way from Redmond.  Maybe Bill Gates was there hanging out at a cafe by the Calea Victoriei and decided to do a little shopping and check in with the local technology gurus.

anony
Thursday, June 12, 2003

"but out in the rest of the world there's a lot of conjecture that Microsoft will enter the antivirus software business and soon take it over, the same way it took over the font business and the browser business and the... well, you get the idea."

[sigh]

It'd be nice to read an article once in a while that doesn't take a cheap shot at MS.

Philo

Philo
Thursday, June 12, 2003

John K:: "Romanian programmers ROCK!"

I concede that you might be proud of the Romanian programmers, as an American would be proud of an Olympic  medalist.

However, to make a statement like XYZ programmers rock is the wrong kind of extrapolation.

From a purely logical view, very bad.....
RAV is Romanian. He is a programmer. He rocks!
I am a Romanian. I am a programmer. ergo I rock.

from a more philosophical perspective...
"They claim that one’s identity is primarily ethnic: if one thinks his ancestors were good, he will supposedly feel good about himself; if he thinks his ancestors were bad, he will supposedly feel self-loathing. But it doesn’t work; the achievements or failures of one’s ancestors are monumentally irrelevant to one’s actual worth as a person. Only the lack of a sense of self leads one to look to others to provide what passes for a sense of identity. Neither the deeds nor misdeeds of others are his own; he can take neither credit nor blame for what someone else chose to do. There are no racial achievements or racial failures, only individual achievements and individual failures. One cannot inherit moral worth or moral vice. “Self-esteem through others” is a self-contradiction."
-- Michael S. Berline

tapiwa
Thursday, June 12, 2003

> I concede that you might be proud of the Romanian
> programmers, as an American would be proud of an
> Olympic  medalist.

Yes. The US must be very proud of the US space program. It is in my opinion the coolest thing anybody EVER did, and it's been done by the US.

> However, to make a statement like XYZ programmers
> rock is the wrong kind of extrapolation.

From a pure logical point of view, it is indeed a wrong extrapolation.

However, I read this forum a lot, and I have seen the opinion that the Indian programmers are the only non-US programmers that can do complex tasks.

This opinion is also not logical. So I started the original post in order to combat exactly this opinion.

The US and Indian programmers  are not the only ones who program cool things.

Romanian programmers make cool things, too.

John K.
Monday, June 16, 2003

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