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Job Advice

We just had a reorganization within my team so that my boss has more authority and reports to a new manager. 

Not one week later, one person is laid off with no notice, another is given 2 months to "improve" or be fired, and I have been threatened to get a pay decrease (not officially... but it was mentioned that I was "lucky" I came in before the downturn of the economy... and I should not expect a raise).

Now,  the strange thing is that my boss claims that it is his new boss making these statements/decisions.  However, there is no way his new boss has any idea of what is going on in our team. 

The person given 2 months to improve may not be the most senior developer, but he is definitely doing his job and does not deserve to be treated like this.  Coincidentally, my boss has a personality conflict with this person and thinks they are a slacker... based on opinion rather than performance.
Also, as a means to prove himself, my boss assigned this person someone else's work halfway through the project... and he has to finish it in one month when it would be a struggle for the original person to finish in that time.

The person who was laid off was a bit of a slacker, but he has been doing the same quality of work for the past 2 years or so... so why lay him off now?

I am a solid developer, even my boss agrees, but he claims his boss thinks I could be more productive and am paid too much (based on no factual evidence).  I asked my boss what he thinks, and he claims he thinks what I am paid is probably about right since I haven't gotten a raise for the past 2 years and have improved my skill set significantly in that time.  However, my boss has told me in the past that he personally thinks I am paid too high.

I am beginning to feel like my boss is flexing his new muscles and ruling through fear tactics.  My question to the JoS crowd is, what can I and the person who has two months do to safeguard ourselves?

All thoughts are welcome.  (sorry this is so long)

---Seeker

Seeker
Wednesday, April 30, 2003

All of this is 2nd hand stuff. "My boss said you are lazy, so I must tell you to improve" etc.

Just ask for a meeting with the boss and his boss to clarify any issues or concerns they have.

Kenshi
Wednesday, April 30, 2003

One quick update:

I have it from a reputable source that my boss's boss did not say these things.  My boss was asked to evaluate each of the team members and put a low score down next to the guy that has 2 months to prove himself.  His boss then told him to try to work with this employee to get him to improve himself over the next 2-3 months.  Apparently, my boss's technique for that is to threaten to fire the person if they don't improve.

In any event, my boss seems to be outright lying and hiding his actions through his boss.

Seeker
Wednesday, April 30, 2003

Big Boots probably got a pay rise and to pay for it, they have to reduce other costs in the department, so they're sacking developers. Standard business practice.

You won't win this by fighting fair.


Wednesday, April 30, 2003

I'd try and force that meeting. Expose the piggy in the middle.

Kenshi
Wednesday, April 30, 2003

I hate to sound rude, but I'll go ahead and do it anyway.

GROW UP DUDE!

There! I feel better now. <grin>

Seriously though, this sounds like you've got a problem. Your boss (or his boss) thinks you're paid too high and you don't agree. The thing to do would be to schedule a meeting with your boss and discuss. You can always walk and find another job. Similarly, they can always fire you (or lay you off).  There's no guarantees. Where I live, it's "at will" employment -- which basically means your free to leave when you want (for any reason) and they're fee to let you go when they want (for any reason).

Grow up, handle it like an adult, or move on. It's that simple. You sound like a preschool kid whining about it. Get some confidence, make a decision (discuss with your boss or leave), act like an adult and move on to the next issue. It's really that simple. Really.

As to the other employees: They're absolutely, positively, none of your concern. Let them handle their own situation(s) themselves.

"... ruling through fear tactics ..." is normal. You'll encounter it in some form or another wherever you go. Get used to it. It doesn't mean it's right (but I'll have to say that it is *absolutely* appropriate in a very small set of circumstances) but it's going to happen and you'd better learn how to deal with it or just give up work altogether. It's not unique to our industry. It's out there everywhere. Deal with it.

You should never (and I mean *never*) be afraid to walk away if things don't work out. Keep your skills up to date, keep up on certifications, keep up on continuing education, constantly network network network, put at least 10 % of each paycheck into your RainyDayWalkAwayFund, invest wisely, live *below* your means, participate in users groups and programmers organazitions/clubs, make adult decisions, plan for contingincies, update your resume at least once each quarter, do some public speaking, read, read, read, and read some more, make productive use of your time instead of (whatever it is you do with your spare time), when you enter a job -- have an exit strategy before you start your first day, learn to play the "corporate/departmental politics" game, and most importantly: Look out for number one (you!). Don't worry about what other people are doing, do the best you can (and be honest -- are you really doing your best?).

If you do all of the above (and anything else you can think of) then you'll find that a new job will come easier/quicker and if it still takes a long(ish) time to find a new job, you've got your RainyDayWalkAwayFund to fall back on. Mine's currently 3 years worth. If I can't find a job I'll go back to school and pick up my PhD. I'll have a shiny new degree before my funding runs out and, more importantly, I'll have a darned good reason to explain an extended absense from employment. It's all about the contingency planning.

If you decide not to walk then you need to speak with your boss about this. If y'all can't come to some understanding of your value to the organization then you're in for more frustration the longer you stay.

Now, take a deep breath, find a quiet spot, sit down and think about it. Make a decision one way or another and just do it. Quit whining like a little kid.

Sargent Sausage
Wednesday, April 30, 2003

Sargent Sausage,

First, let me say that I am sad to see that someone like you brings down the quality of this community with your attitude and negative remarks.

Therefore, let me append my question to include the statement: "Please reply with intelligent constructive comments only"

Thanks.

Seeker
Wednesday, April 30, 2003

I've been down this road a few times, I worked for a guy who did the exact same thing and just wait it will get worse, just think milgrim expirament:

I don't you guys to do daily status reports but my boss ...
I tried to get you a raise/more options but ....
I tried to tell him we should'nt make you work weekends but ....
I know you need 50 dollar ram chip but ....
I know there is no practical reason to run this test but ...
This went on for 2+ years.
The list will get longer and more creative with time

The intersting part of the story for me, is that in this beggers can't be choosers market I took another job with the same boss as at the previous company. i.e. me + original boss at new company, and he tried to put the b.s. deathgrip on me again but this time I called him on it:

i.e. Oh your boss thinks I should still be in by 9:00 am even though I left at 1:00 am last night, great let me talk to him.

Oh status reports, fine I'll go talk to your opressor ....

So far it has been better, the other funny thing is now I can torture him a little too, since he's had 7 of the 12 people who worked for him leave voluntarily (in addition to two being fired) in roghly 7 months. And with that kind of record the onus is on him to stop the bleeding now, so I am making life as difficult as possible for him now.

scarred for life
Wednesday, April 30, 2003

Before discussing your salary and whether it's too high or low, take a look at web sites like Salary.com to get some baseline figures for similar workers in your town. If you're at a company that's large enough to internally publish information on average salaries, get those figures too.

Beth Linker
Wednesday, April 30, 2003

Having said that, part of the reason I can do what I am doing to fight my idiot boss, is that I've been doing the same things Sergeant Sausage recommended since I started working 5+ years ago. It really does give you a lot more leverage.

Save (I have 4 years expenses tucked away and paid for car)
Network (best way to do this is to help people outside your org)

Learn (I've been slacking here lately, but will pick up)

That way if the B.S. level gets to high you can afford to have the satisfaction to starting to angrily packing your bags in the middle of a project only to have your boss try to stop you. (Very satisfying I must say)

scarred for life
Wednesday, April 30, 2003

I assume Sargent Sausage was trolling, but if not...

I don't know where you've been working but "ruling through fear" is actually not _that_ common in well-run companies.  I've experienced it once in the 5 companies I've worked with over my career and I left soon after (of course this was back in 1998 when leaving your current job was a much easier-to-deal with situation).  Needless to say, the company I left is no longer in existence, as the horrible management changes resulted in a mass exodus of the quality employees.

To the original poster.. I'd say this sounds like a crappy situation.  A lot of managers, when they get a new job, feel like they have to be out there making a visible impact -- they got hired to be a manager, so by-golly they are just going to manage their asses off, even if that means changing policies/procedures that have worked great in the past, or making hiring/firing decisions that don't make a lot of sense in the long term. 

My ideal advice would be to talk to your boss's boss and see what is up and if you can't come to some sort of agreement, get out of there quick.  Of course, that advice is somewhat complicated by the current economy and the fact that you may be better off just shutting up for a while and riding it out... But in the meantime I'd still say you should be on the lookout for other opportunities...there are some out there.

George McBay
Wednesday, April 30, 2003

While sergeant sausage was being mean about it, he did identify one thing:

A lot of the language you used in the original post is victim-langauge.  You basically say "This stuff is happening to me, it isn't fair ..."

Continuing down that road makes you end up in victim-land, where you give control over your destiny to someone else and whine about it.

But I don't think that's what's happened here.

I have two, (2) pieces of advice:

If you can ignore it, ignore it.  Only consider the things that are emailed, and rely on email to create a paper-trail.

Create two (2) types of documents:

1) Goals and Objectives for the quarter and year.  Make them specific, measurable, and achievable.

2) A professional growth/improvement document.

You may want to combine these.

Try to get your boss's boss CC'ed on the emails as much as possible. 

Keep your head down, write lots and lots of code.

If you begin to get pressure about "not doing good enough", bring out your quarterly statement and say:

"My goal was to delivery systems X, Y, and Z in October; I delivered X in September, Y on October 1st and Z on October 31st.  How am I failing?  Is my bug count too high?"

Basically, it's harder to prove that you are failing if you have metrics that prove you are reaching your goals.

If your company doesn't have this kind of process in place, your superiors will begin to recognize you as a diamond in the rough.

Bring #1 and #2 into your annual reviews.  Your goal:  Force them to either give you a raise, or make sure that they admit that the ENTIRE company is having financial problems and that no one in your department/group/company is getting a raise.  (It's hard to beat that argument, but after three years of it, you may begin to feel like ...)

OPTION NUMBER TWO:

Recognize that you can't put up with it.  The inconsistencies, the lying, the never-being-able-to-win-ness of your situation. 

If you can't win the game, and you are an achiever that must win - well, play another game.

Find work somewhere else - and not just "work" but a company with a positive culture, with co-workers you respect, that can smell out bad management and get rid of it.

Believe it or not, companies like this do exist.

In any event, recognize these as your choices and choose one.  Choose to act, not to be acted upon.

Good luck!

regards,

Matt H.
Wednesday, April 30, 2003

Thanks for the feedback.  To be fair, I think something is lost in the typing if I sound as though I am whining.  I am by no means a poor poor me kind of person.

In fact, I have been actively trying to improve my situation at my workplace over the past 2 years by introducing better code development procedures and unit testing and so forth.  I believe this may be some of the reason behind my boss's attitude towards me, as I believe he may feel I am somehow usurping his power.

I appreciate the suggestion to have hard metrics to measure my performance.  I will see if I can get that ball in motion.  But this is just to bide the time as I look for other employment.  I can no longer trust a word out of my bosses mouth.

Thanks again.

Seeker
Wednesday, April 30, 2003

Go over your boss's head.  Have a lunch meeting with his boss.  Present him with a typed document of just the facts as it pertains to the company's bottom line and how your boss is impactiing it.

This might get you fired, but the five times I have done it has worked.  Remember, the boss's boss need ammo to fire your boss.  Give it to him in a form that he can use.

If all you do is speculate, opinionate and attack you boss, you will get yourself in a lot of trouble.  In order to win, you must present clear cut facts, comparing before and after the management upheaval costs of projects, delivery times, project completion times, overhead costs, recruitment costs, lost knowledge costs, etc.

Besure to include graphs to visually drive home your point.  Stress to your boss's boss that you are doing this because you only want the best for the company and that your boss was not being receptive to your concerns for the company's bottom line.

Bryan Shaw
Wednesday, April 30, 2003

re finding new employment, make sure you're not jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire.


Wednesday, April 30, 2003

I'd personally never talk to your boss's boss. In my experience as a manager who dealt with many personnel conflicts in the past - it's never a good idea. Nothing good will come out it.

If there are any issues with your boss, just sit down and have a chat with him.  If he's unreasonable, talk to HR.
If your company dont have a HR, then walk away and find a new job. If they make walking away difficult, sue.

As simple as that.

jmho
Wednesday, April 30, 2003

>I'd personally never talk to your boss's boss

Yes.  Always try to work it out at the LOWEST possible level.

In Military Terms, it's not Ok to break the chain of command, it is Ok to go to the IG. (HR)

Matt H.
Wednesday, April 30, 2003

Seeker,

I don't know how best to fix it but I can guarantee you that if it continues, you'll be the next to get the bad treatment after the other guy is run off. I've seen this sort of thing before. The basic problem is your boss is not just a jackass but a mean one to boot. Regardless of what you do to try to fix the problem, also work on lining up other work or reducing your cost of living as a backup plan just in case it can't be resolved -- I've never seen one of these resolved, so if you figure it out you can legitimately claim bragging rights! :)

Tony Chang
Wednesday, April 30, 2003

It is very rare that someone is paid too much. I am not aware of anyone ever having their salary reduced except in desperate circumstances where everyone incurred the same thing.

So the whole scene sounds like a power trip.

You never win these by being meek. You have to respond by very clearly showing you are not afraid of this person.

If, for example, he or she demands you work all weekend ( when you don't want to, ) refuse straight out and tell him the company needs to fix its resourcing problem.

Perhaps be straight out about and offer your resignation. Maybe in a meeting with his boss.


Wednesday, April 30, 2003

But see this can only work if you don't need the job

scarred for life
Wednesday, April 30, 2003

Oh, actually I do have some constructive advise. Document EVERYTHING, with exact words used and date and time and who was present. And get him into lots of conversations in which you pin him down on specifics, then be SURE to follow up to him with an email mentioning the key points and BCC your home account.

This info will come very handy when they try to scam you -- you just write them back with snippets of these things. Ex: "Although you state I am incompetant now, you assured me in an email on April 30 that I was the best developer the company had and severely underpaid." etc.

Tony Chang
Wednesday, April 30, 2003

And also document in glorious detail all the unlicensed software they are using... just in case.

Tony Chang
Wednesday, April 30, 2003

The one thing everyone is saying is: "never be afraid to walk away from a bad situation".

I'm inclined to agree here. Do what you can inside, and get out if you have to.

But I'm also aware of the issue with that: it's not nearly that easy. As one poster mentioned, save money for a rainy day. Make sure you always put away *something*. Out of *every* paycheck. Make a goal, like 10% or something saved out of every check. You don't have to meet it, but put away what you can and don't touch it if you don't absolutely have to.

Figure out how much money you really need to be unemployed: What are your car payments? What's the biggest electric bill you may get?  What's your food budget? Health insurance?

That last is a real big one: I know one sad case where a former co-worker was (still is) trying to put a kid through college and feed his family and pay for car, etc on a retail sales (retail, not cars, not real estate, but retail: network cards and moniters and all that fun stuff) pay. Needless to say, he works a lot and can't quit because he needs the benefits. And it's hard looking for a job when you're working that many hours.

My point is that you should be able to walk away if you have to. Hope that it won't come to it, and follow everyone elses advice on preventing it, but if it does, you should still be able to eat.

Mike Swieton
Thursday, May 01, 2003

Dear Seeker,
                    Sergeant Sausage's advice is the best on the thread and your attitude suggests you don't really want advice at all, just a sympathetic shoulder to cry on.

                    In simple English' YOU ARE STUFFED. One of two things  - either you are overpaid and not very good, or you are being victimized. Either way things are only going to get worse; you'll take a pay cut and your boss will pile more work on you and then tell his boss, "Well I gave him a chance but he can.t even do the simple stuff I put his way."

                    So decide whether you can afford to be fired. If you can't, keep your head down, eat shit both literally and metaphorically, and hope you survive with a pay check long enough to avoid the dumpster.

                    If you can afford to be fired, then see your boss, and tell him you would like to discuss things about the threatened pay cut with his boss, since you would like to explain your viewpoint and the confilcting ideas you have with your direct boss - the guy you are talking to - that are causing problems. He may get scared of firing you later, particularly if it will come out that he hed refused the meeting. Explain things to him verbally, and then send an email confiriming the salient facts of the conversation.

                  But any  boss gets a grace period, particularly if his boss his new. And that grace period can be long. I have seen it last as long as three or four years, during which time the whole staff of the school either left or were fired (the latter were those who filled in the form saying they wanted another year) for three years on the trot. In another case we as Union reps informed the owner of the inabiltiy of his head of senior school to do the role for two years (it would have been three but instead of demoting her he paid the union reps to go away), and it was only at the end of the third year that he finally decided to get rid of her (and had to pay her a fortune because he sacked all the guys who would have testified against her the year before!). The first school I ever taught at in the UK the head was a young/old 29 year old whizz kid with a fine line in buzz words. In less than a year he had antagonized all the staff and made the old timers yearn his predecessor (who never held a full staff meeting in five years because somebody would insist on the reading of the minutes from the last one and that the vote of no confidence in the headmaster be the first item on the agenda). That guy was still there ten years later!

                  So expect the worst. Standing up to the guy is probably the best policy; it makes it marginally less likely you will get the chop but more importantly it is more fun.

Stephen Jones
Thursday, May 01, 2003

Dear Seeker,
    What makes you so IMPORTANT that your boss is devising all these lies, as you described? Is he just bored out of his mind? 
    If you think in his shoes, maybe you will understand the intention behind his actions. I can almost gurantee his intentions are not half as bad as you imagine. Try to understanding his point of view first before you make any move.
    Also, like someone already suggested - never break the chain of command. Because if you do that, then 1) You show no respect to him, as you take him out of the loop 2) From his boss' point of view, it's just a he says, she says yelling match (think about it, why would he believe you more than your boss) 3) What can possibly come out of it? Your boss gets fired or reprimanted? What would be the benefit to you? Practically nothing except gaining an enemy.

Hope this helps

i-ching
Thursday, May 01, 2003

About this not violating some 'chain of command'...

Bullshit.

If you meet an immovable object you navigate round it.  You might not do it directly, you might use some third party, in this case HR, that's what they are there for.  If HR is emasculated then the organisation is probably poisoned anyway but if you think you can win call his bluff.

But, before doing that be very clear that you have a good case, not so much as to whether you are paid at the right level or not (though that is a typical bullying tactic its actually pretty empty if directed at an individual), but that your manager is a bully and is using the organisational change as an excuse.

It hasn't been said why the manager, department, has a new manager itself.  Perhaps your manager or department is perceived as not performing and the new manager is tasked with turning it round.

Bear in mind that sometimes higher management confuse an individual manager's performance with their department.  This is why when producing status reports its important that the department gets sight of them and they aren't just massaged into some spun report that hides difficult truths.

In any organisation its important to create relationships outside of the department at every level and between levels.  Organisations that maintain rigid departments can also become subject to the Kremlin and Party Cell syndrome where every department lies to every other one.

Simon Lucy
Thursday, May 01, 2003


Sargent Sausage might have come on a little strong, but so what? 

There are way too many people whining expecting their workplace or boss to be their mommy and daddy substitute. 

Life ain't fair and it ain't supposed to be.  Get over it.

If you are not going to look out for yourself, please don't whine about how bad you have it... you placed yourself in that position.

Joe AA
Thursday, May 01, 2003

>About this not violating some 'chain of command'...
>
>Bullshit

No, Simon, it's right.  In my experience, command tends to back subordinate command, not the rebellion.  Try it and you will find yourself in the same position as before, but you boss -knows- you tried to screw him.

HOWEVER, there are some legitimate tacks.  When you've got concerns over hostile workplace or ethics issues, you can go to HR.  If you have legal issues, you can skip the chain of command. (IE: My Captain gave me an order to kill innocent women and children.  Think Enron and WorldCom)

In a Military setting, I did try something like this once:

I was a volenteer cadet at an airshow and felt I had been mis-treated.  By Sunday morning, the Project Officersaid something to me like: "You'd better get going; the Wing Commander is going to be here in about an hour, and I think you won't want to be here for that." (Evil look in his eye)

My team and I decided to stay.  30 minutes later, OIC comes back "What, you're still here?  The wing commander is going to be here in half an hour?"

My reply: "Yes sir, and I think I might need to talk to him about a few things."


Project Officer's face turns white.
Project Officer leaves, talks to some other people.

5 minutes later, he comes back in, saying something about how we need to "Clear up this communication problem" - essentially, aplogizing without saying it.

I dunno if you can apply that, but sometimes, you gotta know when to push back the -right- way.  Other wise, you'll just get shoved around.

And if you need to cheat or lie or break rules to "win" - well, in my experience, it's better to move on.  Who wants to be the "king of the mountain" when the mountain is a dung heap?


regards,

Matt H.
Thursday, May 01, 2003

I agree mostly with Matt H. 

The only time I've seen breaking the chain actually work was when the entire group marched into the office of the boss of the boss.

 
Thursday, May 01, 2003

Sargent Sausage,

Thanks for those advices. What you wrote is clear, absolutely true, wise and totally reasonable. I'm going to cut and paste it to my information repository in case I forget again :) .

'Seeker' may not have gotten it, but I _really_ did. Thanks a million for the reminder.

jcm
Thursday, May 01, 2003

A few small points to add.

It became OK to go over your bosses' head when he laid the blame on his boss. True the military doesn't like you going round the chain of command, but the flip side of that is that every officer takes responsibility for the orders they give. i.e. 'The General told me to give you this order which I disagree with' is never allowable.

It is never OK to rule by fear. The only people who do are despots and dictators. It's unfair on the victim, and it's also bad leadership. Not even the military recommends it (according to the three star general I heard on the subject last year). I defy anyone to find a leadership or management text that says fear is an effective motivator.

And seeker, even if you are going to quit, stand up for yourself. You'll be doing your fellow workers a favour, you'll be doing the company a favour (by exposing bad management practice), and you may be doing your boss a favour if you can cure him of thinking these tactics will get results.

David Clayworth
Thursday, May 01, 2003

Military organisations are the exception.

When you sign on as an employee you don't sign away your rights in quite the same way.

Simon Lucy
Thursday, May 01, 2003

Seeker, et al:


Sargeant Sausage spoke the *absolute* truth. You are kidding yourself by deeming it non-constructive.  No, I don't see it as a troll at all.


In the workplace today, the *only* way to achieve an outcome that is desirable to yourself is to negotiate from a position of strength, and to be prepared at all times for the loss of a job.


I've known PLENTY of utterly miserable people who cling to a crappy job because they have convinced themselves that they have no alternatives. And I've known people who rode out warning signs like the ones you've described, and one day they get "whacked", or some series of minor confrontations (orchestrated by someone with more political power) escalated and finally blew up in their face.


No matter how much you choose to ignore or disagree, the truth is that a lot of managers are characterless, back stabbing pricks who actually do sit around scheming about the most useful way to strike fear into the "local's" hearts by sacking someone to set an example.


>>  If you decide not to walk then you need to speak with your boss about this. If y'all can't come to some understanding of your value to the organization then you're in for more frustration the longer you stay.


"Understanding your value" - this paragraph should be framed and hung.  Even if the rest of Sarge's post reads rough, this is a gem and redeems the entire thing.


In short, it's the market and it's negotiation. End of story.

Bored Bystander
Thursday, May 01, 2003

Fair enough, Bored Bystander. 

I understand there was a thread of good advice in Sargent Sausage's post.  However, I do believe it would have been much more constructive if it wasn't surrounded by name calling.  Also, his statement that "leading through fear tactics" as being an acceptable way of managing is just ridiculous.  Just as it is ridiculous to think if you insult someone while giving advice it will somehow hit home more.

In any event, thanks everyone who provided feedback.  I didn't expect to get this big of a response :)

Seeker
Thursday, May 01, 2003

Seeker, I sympathize. I've lived this scenario MANY times. It's exactly why I went into contracting in the first place.


However, Sausage specifically didn't say that fear tactic management was good or correct. He just said that it tends to happen more often than not. I have found this to be the truth.  And he didn't call you any names, he simply said "you sounded  like". Which is a bit rude, but falls short of namecalling.


I think the main "sin" he committed was not sugar coating the truth and not attributing any weight whatsoever to who's "right" in a moral sense. I've been "right" and lost jobs several times in the past. The winner is going to be whomever achieves their objective. Which is going to be whomever has bigger brass balls and the most skill in negotiation.


Regardless, I think you got the correct gist. No matter how you, I, or any of us would prefer companies to be run, they *will* be run as the owners and management see fit.  Social and economic revolution is a much different issue than determining how an individual can keep a particular job.


In short - "should" is not a viable strategy.

Bored Bystander
Thursday, May 01, 2003

Re going over your manager's head - you should do this for two reasons.

First, if that guy backs your manager without further thought, it tells you you're stuffed and they're probably only keeping you to finish something. Use that knowledge to maximise your interests. Negotiate a staged departure with bonuses or something.

Second, if that's not the situation, then most managers are vulnerable to their own superiors disagreeing with them, particularly on ethical or workplace issues. Some managers will lose their jobs over issues like that.

echidna
Thursday, May 01, 2003

I find Sergeant Sausage's almost entirely bereft of tact and diplomacy.

I am shocked by his or her attitude, but not entirely surprised; I wonder is Sausage actually works on a PR role??

First off, the person who wrote the initiating message is NOT a child - they are old enough to work and even though you find it hard to comprehend Sausage, that person is naturally very worried because the job they're doing - the position they're holding down to put food on the table, is under threat. In the real world this is worrying for everyone who bothers to get up in the morning and work irrespective of the employer or the type of work and no, simply getting up and walking away is not the answer.

You don't know the full extent of the nature of threats aimed at this person - don't prejudge them, ridicule them using words like "grow up" and "act like and adult" - just where the hell do you purport to get off on such an arrogant attitude? If you where in charge of helping people in a similar position I would personally see that YOU where monitored very closely because your attitude turns people off.

You have some useful information but your attitude I am afraid proceeds you and you are not helping either the person involved or this board in general. Now please, take onboard the advice not only I am giving you and act on it. I think a little maturity on your outlook on life in general is called for, Sir.

William Henry
Saturday, June 05, 2004

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