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MSDN Universal 1 yr for $1139 - Ok?

I found this place a while back and I am considering ordering MSDN Universal from them:

http://www.vlane.com/msdn/

The online BBB gives them a satisfactory grade.

The only thing is, they use Paypal for charges, which presumes to exempt itself from all credit card recourse (no so, saith my credit card company when I asked them about this.)

Anyone else use Vlane?

Note: this is NOT a commercial posting and I have no commercial interest in VLane. If anyone has seen a better deal, please post away.

Bored Bystander
Thursday, February 13, 2003

If you are an ISV (you sell a shrink wrap product that runs on Windows or works with Visual Studio) I believe the Universal MSDN price is $599.  Used to be $499.  The deal is directly from Microsoft.  Yes, this is the _Universal_ level product - the full whack - for $599.

Mitch & Murray (from downtown)
Thursday, February 13, 2003

Mitch & Murray, any links to this on the Microsoft site?

RocketJeff
Thursday, February 13, 2003

MSDN Universal should be close to or just over $2000.00 / year.

vlane isn't telling you which product this is and by that I mean is this the OLP (Open Licensing) version which basically means you get the software and then you have to purchase a License for every person who uses it.  This option will cost you more than the $2000.00.  Microsoft offers OLP for larger clients. 

It's also possible they have a few academic versions they are selling, either way I would be cautious.

Harvey
Thursday, February 13, 2003

Looking at www.PriceWatch.com , there seems to be plenty of companies selling MSDN very cheaply.  I took a look at some of them, and it seems to be the full product (gives list price of $2,xxx, sale price of $1,xxx).

Most give Microsoft's product code, so you can loot it up on Microsoft's site. One place has the License only version in addition to regular versions. I wonder if MS is giving a large discount on MSDN right now.

A few I found:
http://store.yahoo.com/softwareplususa/msun70.html
http://www.store.yahoo.com/i-market/msdn.html
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/elementsources/micmssub.html

RocketJeff
Thursday, February 13, 2003

<quote>
The only thing is, they use Paypal for charges, which presumes to exempt itself from all credit card recourse (no so, saith my credit card company when I asked them about this.)
</quote>

Huh? That's not true at all, and can only to a limited extent be true as it relates to use of your PayPal account charges which were not done through a Credit Card.

Just read their User Agreement: http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/ua-outside


Perhaps you could be a bit more specific on this point? I don't think I understand exactly what it is that you are saying.

Also, who was it that said whatever it was that was said?

Brian Hall
Thursday, February 13, 2003

I've been buying MSDN Universal for my own use at home for the last several years, and never saw a real, fully licensed, no-shit one-year subscription for less than right around 2K USD. I've seen variations with MS themselves at the high-end at around 2500 USD last year, while I got it from Provantage for a couple hundred less than that. The first time I got the MSDN Universal, it cost me something like around 1700 USD roughly, but that's because it was an upgrade price from having owned MS Visual Studio Enterprise 6.0 prior to.

I'd be really suspicious of any price for a real MSDN Universal that's much less than, oh, maybe 1600 USD at the minimum. Unless Microsoft has changed their price on it as somebody suggested (I haven't checked this year yet), then I'd suspect anybody selling for 1000 USD or sub- 1000 USD like you describe is probably not providing the right product. They may be selling previous year's stuff, or some bogus educational license you'll never be able to renew/upgrade if you're in school now and then get out of school later. I doubt it's proper full retail license.

I haven't looked into this lately, so I certainly may be out of date and wrong, but do be careful -- you don't want to even spend 600 USD and not have it get you what you're expecting.

Good Luck,

anonQAguy
Thursday, February 13, 2003

Harvey: from what I read on the Microsoft site, each copy of MSDN (universal or architect or pro) is licensed for use by one and only one developer.

The documentation can be shared,  but I can't install Office XP from MSDN on my machine and a couple of co-workers. They are supposed to get their own MSDN subscription.

So I don't see why a OLP copy would not work. Either way, it is a license for one person...?

AEB
Thursday, February 13, 2003

Everyone - thanks for the points on Open Licensing.

On Paypal, Brian said:

---------------

Huh? That's not true at all, and can only to a limited extent be true as it relates to use of your PayPal account charges which were not done through a Credit Card.

Just read their User Agreement: http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/ua-outside


Perhaps you could be a bit more specific on this point? I don't think I understand exactly what it is that you are saying.

---------------

I'll clarify. I am aware that Paypal has developed a reputation as being complete pr*cks with regard to seller and buyer responsiveness. IE - they freeze merchant accounts with little explanation and they won't guarantee recourse to a stiffed buyer.

So I called my credit card company (I think this was AT&T Platinum card) and explained that I proposed to purchase software online using Paypal, a third party billing agent, as the credit card processor. The service rep said flatly that if I don't receive merchandise or whatever was agreed, I don't pay, regardless of the billing agent's stated policies. I said to the guy 'but this is Paypal and they don't favor the consumer and they explicitly say they don't allow chargebacks.' He said, "doesn't matter" (m/l.)

I suspect that this is as it 'should' be. Paypal can't make up its own frigging banking and commerce laws.

Bored Bystander
Thursday, February 13, 2003

I see plenty in that PayPal agreement saying that if _someone pays you_ with a stolen credit card and the charges get reversed, it's you, not PayPal, who's out the money.  But I don't see anything saying that if _you pay_ with credit card and never get the merchandise, you're screwed.  But they do have that $2000 (apparently cumulative, not per-transaction) limit after which, they say, you can't use a credit card anymore.  And of course if somebody takes money out of your bank account, lotsa luck getting it back.  Which is why, on the (fortunately rare) occasions when I use PayPal, I always pay by credit card.

Kyralessa
Thursday, February 13, 2003

I don't know anything about Vlane, but you can definitely get MSDN Universal for much much less than the MS site.  We buy our licenses from VioSoftware (http://www.viosoftware.com).  They're currently selling it for US$1395, but the price fluctuates (The last copy we paid $1195 for).  Choose DVD, and get an additional $300 back from MS.

Viosoftware has a very good rating (91% positive over the past three months from bizrate.com) and I would definitely buy from them again.

Remember, with MSDN you're not buying the actual product from the reseller, you're buying the agreement and all the software is shipped directly from MS.  If there was something suspicious going on, I think MS would shut it down quick enough.

Disclaimer: I'm not affiliated with viosoftware, blah blah blah...

Darren
Thursday, February 13, 2003

Damn, Darren!

just took a look at viosoftware. that's the *best* price I've seen on universal.
worthwhile link - thanks!

cheers,

anonQAguy
Thursday, February 13, 2003

One of the other penalties for being in Europe, the prices for MSDN seem far more 'fixed' than in the US.

Simon Lucy
Friday, February 14, 2003

Sorry, gotta brag here.... $854 off of eBay.  Just look for a seller with good feedback.  The one I bought from had literally hundreds of MSDN sales.

It's usually set it up so that once they receive payment, they send your information directly to Microsoft.  A week later, a big box arrives in the mail.  If it wasn't legit, Microsoft wouldn't send it, right?

Ryan
Friday, February 14, 2003

The best value way to get MSDN is to have a packaged product and submit it for "Designed for XP" status which means you then become a Microsoft Certified Partner. This (XP) is a self certifying program but you will need to buy a code signing key (In the US I think you need a D&B number in the UK a VAT number)
You can then get 5 Msdn Universal licenses for $1500 (plus 10 office & XP licenses). If you bother to get tested at Veritest for "Designed for XP gold" (Cost $3000) you get to be a Gold Certfied partner and the licenses go up to 10 MSDN & 100 Office licenses. In theory if you qualify for "designed for XP" the independent testing should be a simple formality.
Weirdly this year MS have made the licenses for Office and Windows XP "upgrade" licenses rather than the full Win2K licenses last year.
I reckon the whole thing cost us around 3-4 man months (actually we did most of the work for Win2K compat tests a few years ago but I'm including that) For a medium sized company like ours its a real no brainer, plus the actual work we did on uninstall etc was really worthwhile.

Peter Ibbotson
Monday, February 17, 2003

I bought the Universal subscription from VLane last May and have had no problems with it.  I receive the monthly updates as with a purchase from Microsoft themselves.  I've even had to ring Microsoft to check on a late delivery of one month's set of discs and there was no issue with my registered number.

As stated at the top Microsoft say that these cheap suppliers are effectively manipulating a loophole in the licence which they are working to close so don't know how much longer it'll be available.  I see that vlane.com only provides contact details anymore and not the subscription information that it used to so maybe they are feeling the pinch.  As stated earlier they also sell on ebay at $890.

a
Tuesday, January 20, 2004

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