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Groove nuspeak

Blimey. Ray's response to Joel's comments on Groove are really a masterpiece of buzzwords and convoluted yet entirely random verbiage.

I particularly liked:

"a straightforward COM-based MVC programming abstraction on top of a "shared space" virtualization"

...and all the talk about ecosystems was funny too.

Does anybody really think such a random collection of nonsense in any way helps them sell a product?

DB
Wednesday, September 11, 2002

Heavy users of buzzwords aren't trying to sell product, they're trying to impress people. For a man of Ray Ozzie's supposed credentials I found his post most disappointing.

Mark Williams
Wednesday, September 11, 2002

Well i thought it was good...

Robin Debreuil
Wednesday, September 11, 2002

I stopped reading when I got to this:

"The first thing that I agree with is that one must recognize crisply whether or not one's core motivations are in the platform space or in the application space."

Ahem.

J. D. Trollinger
Wednesday, September 11, 2002

I had no problem understanding Ray Ozzie's reply, and while it was a little wordy, it had meaning.  Making fun of him for a few buzzwords is like making fun of the nerd in elementary school because he talks funny.

young programmer
Wednesday, September 11, 2002

I think Ray actually said things but it would have been nice if he had said it in a nice straightforward matter-of-fact style like Joel uses.

Luke Duff
Wednesday, September 11, 2002

They want to sell different products, so they present themselves differently.

Adrian Gilby
Wednesday, September 11, 2002

I understand "COM-based MVC programming abstraction", but what the hell is a "shared space virtualization"?

pUnk
Wednesday, September 11, 2002

I thought that it was overly verbose.  Sure I could understand it, but if you are really smart you can explain things in a much simpler way.  Just because you CAN write this way doesn't mean you SHOULD.

Tim
Thursday, September 12, 2002

Chiming in... I thought it was fine.  Buzzwords are an occupational hazard, and I filtered them out.  I think Ray has to speak with these buzzwords for precision... and if you notice, Joel is criticized for being too general.  So damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Greg Neumann
Thursday, September 12, 2002

Ray is a bit neologistic, but hey new paradigms demand new vocabulary (actually, I don't believe that).

Anyhow, if you really want to get a good feel for where Groove is heading as a platform - particularly for those of you who want to develop using .NET and not the deeply convoluted COM stuff, you should really check this out – not only is it interesting technically, but it also really reveals the power of Groove.

You have to jump through a few hoops to get the webbcast viewer installed, but it is worth it.

http://www.microsoft.com/usa/webcasts/ondemand/999.asp

I would love to hear any comments from folks who take the time to watch the presentation.

Best,
Nick

Nick Katsivelos
Thursday, September 12, 2002

I think Joel's writing does not use buzzwords because his products eschew buzzword technology to begin with. Use the right tool for the job.

Zwarm Monkey
Thursday, September 12, 2002

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