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MENSA and all it entails

Just curious, are any of you in MENSA?

To try to relate it to the forum, it seems that our field requires at least a *slightly* higher intelligence quotient than average, and the egomaniac in me thinks surely we'd all be in the top 2%!  :)

I've given consideration to trying to join, but if any of you are members touting the benefits of MENSA, or have strong beliefs against such an accepting-yet-simultaneously-elitist organization I would love to hear about it.

Engineer on the Fence
Thursday, August 22, 2002

Is there something missing in your life that you feel membership in mensa would fill?

I think the whole thing is densa.

Robin Debreuil
Thursday, August 22, 2002

I joined Mensa primarily to list my membership in the "Activities & Interests" portion of my resume, but since I've joined, I've made some good friends and some good contacts.  (There are a lot of fellow developers in Mensa here in Pittsburgh.) 

There are lots of fun events as well.  My wife and I love to play board games, and there are many "Game Nights".  And just this weekend, there was a colloquium on consciousness sponsored by Compuware which would probably appeal to AI types. 

SZP
Thursday, August 22, 2002

Was a member for several years - got the magazine but never did anything with the organization. found out that there was a local chapter in Minneapolis (via a fellow Army Reservist) and went to one meeting.

Wow, if you thought computer people were geeks then you've never been to a MENSA meeting. These people made me look normal.

jeff
Thursday, August 22, 2002

I agree.

I can't think of any situation (outside of the Mensa group itself) where mentioning being a member would benefit you.  In most situations you'd probably be dismissed as an insecure braggart.

Dunno Wair
Thursday, August 22, 2002

Whoops.

A few more posts since the one that I agree with.

Dunno Wair
Thursday, August 22, 2002

"Is there something missing in your life that you feel membership in mensa would fill?"

Possibly.

I was talking with a friend of mine about the constraints and similarities of art vs. engineering (he's an artist, I'm an software "engineer") about a week before that thread came up on here.  We have conversations like that all the time.

Unfortunately I live in a small midwestern town which has a disproportionate amount of residents who enjoy discussing things such as the constraints and similarites of Old Style vs. Pabst Blue Ribbon. (No joke)  While I enjoy that kind of lax attitude much of the time, it would be nice to possibly communicate on a deeper level with people sometime.  After a year here, it's getting a little old.  I have no idea if Mensa can even offer what I'm looking for (or even if I know what I'm looking for)... which is why I was asking.

Engineer on the Fence
Thursday, August 22, 2002

Off topic: I find it hilarious that MENSA means 'stupid' in spanish (refering to female gender). That's no joke, serious. Sorry for this incredible non-helpful comment, I just couldn't resist.

Engineer from Mexico City
Thursday, August 22, 2002


Yeah, that was the first thing I thought when heard of MENSA.

BTW, <drool>Asia Carrera</drool> is a MENSA member :-)

Leonardo Herrera
Thursday, August 22, 2002

I wonder if Spain even has a Mensa chapter (and if so, are there any female members)?

A roomful of high-IQ polyglots and not one speaks Spanish?  Seems unlikely.

Dunno Wair
Thursday, August 22, 2002

"Unfortunately I live in a small midwestern town which has a disproportionate amount of residents who enjoy discussing things such as the constraints and similarites of Old Style vs. Pabst Blue Ribbon."

I think is exactly the situation mensa is deisgned for. Of course, you could always just buy a car and drive out!

b
Thursday, August 22, 2002

Speaking of Asia Carrera, I think that she could benefit from CityDesk:

http://www.asiacarrera.com/bulletin.html

I think there's a co-branding opportunity here.  Maybe Asia's next movie could feature her sitting at her computer, using CityDesk to update her website.

http://adtimes.nstp.com.my/archive/apr12d.htm

J. D. Trollinger
Thursday, August 22, 2002

Thank heaven I live in a place where we discuss Ford vs. Chevy before going to the monster truck rally.
People in your neck of the woods must be hicks :-P

Doug Withau
Thursday, August 22, 2002

<p>No need to wonder, there is a Mensa Spain  http://www.mensa.es  , but here in Spain, 'mensa' has no meaning, it must be a south american thing.

Andres
Thursday, August 22, 2002

I went to a Mensa meeting once, and I thought it was a really sad collection of people.  They seem like weird, prickly people -- really pleased with themselves because of their high IQs; but none of them seemed very successful, and I think they were sensitive about that.

And how in the world could you put that on a resume?  "What's Mensa?" asks the interviewer.  "A club for really, really smart people," you answer.

What a dork you would look like.

programmer
Thursday, August 22, 2002

Pabst Blue Ribbon. Definitely Pabst Blue Ribbon.

Zwarm Monkey
Thursday, August 22, 2002

I attended a few meetings.  It was a nice group of people.  Mostly they just got together for parties.  At one point the internal politics got a bit messy and I dropped membership.

Sometimes I think it would be nice to meet people who have interests other than the latest sports scores.  You may occasionally find an interesting group on the Internet, but it is rare in Real Life.

mackinac
Thursday, August 22, 2002

I don't put ex-Mensa member on my resume. Nobody would care.  I do put CCP (Certified Computer Programmer), but nobody cares about that either.

mackinac
Thursday, August 22, 2002

Is it free to join or take the test? If so, send me the link.

Dumas
Thursday, August 22, 2002

I just want to join so that I can get the bumper sticker ("I'm a member of MENSA") and stick it on my car upside-down.

Gordon Taylor
Thursday, August 22, 2002

Speaking of Mensa, anyone a member of Mega?  Supposedly it accepts the "top millionth" of smarties, requiring at least IQ 176.
http://www.angelfire.com/ms/mega/OMSHP.html

I've looked at their newsletters.  If you want to tweak them, mention that they should accept you immediately because you can get past the $16,000 question on "Who Wants to be a Millionaire."
http://www.polymath-systems.com/intel/hiqsocs/megasoc/noes150/rosner1.html

Sammy
Friday, August 23, 2002

The mere fact of wanting to belong to one of these "we are smarter than the rest" MENSA type exclusive clubs, indicates a great lack of self consciousness and is IMHO a clear sign of beginning brain deterioration.

Saying that you belong to the top 2% of the population puts you, for me, automatically in the bottom 2%. I'd say put all these self proclaimed elitists together on an uninhabited island for a year. That will learn them to appreciate the inferior farmers, fireman, butchers, cleaning ladies, taxi drivers, factory workers, miners, cooks, shoemakers, whatever.

Members are generally all wannabe smarties, who find comfort in fooling each other that they are superior to the rest of the world. You might have guessed that I find these clubs pitiful and do not count membership as a good thing.

My apologies for the rant.

Jan Derk
Friday, August 23, 2002

"That will learn them to appreciate the inferior farmers, fireman, butchers, cleaning ladies, taxi drivers, factory workers, miners, cooks, shoemakers, whatever."

One of the "claims" of Mensa is that it doesn't discriminate between station in life or occupation, and as a result they supposedly have high-school drop-outs, farmers, miners, garbage-men, and other stereotypically less intellectually intensive professions.

I do however have issues with the fact that it is elitist and does seem like it's a big get-over for people who are insecure with who they are, and need some kind of ego boost (not unlike a couple message board posters I know...)  That was why I called it an "accepting-yet-simultaneously-elitist" organization.  Re-reading it later, I didn't make my point that clear.

Thanks everyone, for your opinions.

Oh, and Zwarm... PBR?  Are you KIDDING me?!?!

Engineer on the Fence
Friday, August 23, 2002

>> The mere fact of wanting to belong to one of these "we are smarter than the rest" MENSA type exclusive clubs, indicates a great lack of self consciousness and is IMHO a clear sign of beginning brain deterioration.

Jan:
As several people have pointed out earlier in the list, most Mensans I know join to enjoy conversations about things other than sports & beer. 

And, if by "consciousness" you mean "confidence", there are certainly a small minority of those who join because their penises are too small - as I expect yours is - but, by and large, it's just a group of fun people with a diverse set of interests.


>> That will learn them to appreciate the inferior farmers, fireman, butchers, cleaning ladies, taxi drivers, factory workers, miners, cooks, shoemakers, whatever.

There are plenty of farmers, fireman, butchers, cleaning ladies, taxi drivers, factory workers, miners, cooks and shoemakers in Mensa.  The *only* qualification for membership is that you demonstrate that you have a genius level IQ.

Furthermore, I strongly suspect that *you* are a gutless elitist because it is, in fact, you who has suggested that farmers, fireman, butchers, cleaning ladies, taxi drivers, factory workers, miners, cooks and shoemakers are inferior.

SZP
Friday, August 23, 2002

Mensa is also an italian word for canteen-type restaurant serving cheap basic food for manual workers or students, from the latin "minsa" meaning table. I think it also had a religious meaning for the high table in a church.
Your etymology lesson for the day.

prj
Friday, August 23, 2002

The thing of MENSA is an interesting one.  My partner is interested in finding out about it....from various tests we have deduced that she has an IQ of arond 145+- a bit.
(what is the IQ required for membership in MENSA?)

I appear to have been gifted withan IQ of 135 or so, which technically makes me less bright than my partner.

I have to say that I agree with that idea, she has an excellent memory, is bright and chirpy, and has an uncanny ability to be good at pretty much anything she puts her mind to.
<g> I, OTOH, forget anything that I haven't thought about in the last 10 min, tend to be grumpy, my one saving grace is that I am able to learn most things I put my mind to, although it can take a serious amount of bashing my head against the desk before ideas and facts begin to drop into place....whereas my partner learns things almost by osmosis.

Ive been programming for the last 3 years of my life, and now own my own company employing 2 other programmers developing software on contract for various overseas clients, both of which are more experienced and (IMO) smarter than myself.  <g> I dont know their actual IQs but they also have the same uncanny ability to remember and learn almost without effort as my partner exhibits,
Before I learnt to program I had left school at 16, failed or flunked out of 3 polytech courses and spent around 8 years or so working as a labourer doing painting, building, tree pruning, landscape work all types of physical work.

Some of the people I worked for during that time I felt were smarter than myself, other were clearly not (IMO), but all of them ran their own businesses, most were very good at their jobs.
Some of the people I worked with during that time were hopelessly incompetent, others were exceptionally good at what they did.  I tended to be on the averagely competent side.  <g> ..although opinions on that varied at times.

I dont believe that I have ever seen any evidence that a high IQ leads to money, success or achievment.
...about the only practical, useful thing Ive noticed a high IQ tends to provide is the ability to learn quickly and to remember what is being taught easily.
<g> It still amazes me that this absolutely does not mean that people with high IQs necessarily have any other attributes of value...they can be just as ignorant, lazy and blind as the rest of us.

The only common element ive seen in successful people is their ability to work hard. 

But im happy to encourage my partner to find out about and possibly join MENSA if she fits their criteria...people are always interesting, and I must admit im curious as to what kind of people they turn out to be.

life is like that
Friday, August 23, 2002

I come from a small town too, but if you are unable to find company at your intellectual level, even after a drive to the city, maybe its more that you are shy. There are plenty of bright farmers, where I lived anyway...

Also, just because no one has said it yet, IQ tests are pretty much full of crap. Think about it, someone says your 'intelligence' is 146. Huh. If you are willing to believe you can put such a number to such a thing, then what does that make you? A 134 gullible, or a 68 in logic, or both.

Btw, I had to take an IQ test for a job once, and the score was very high let me tell you. So I'm most certainly right - you might as well save your silly rebuttals, they will only cause me unnecessary ennui.

Robin Debreuil
Friday, August 23, 2002

...for the sake of completeness I should mention that I only started my own company because no one was willing to hire me as a programmer.  <g> ...employers seemed to feel that my complete lack of programming experience, total absence of domain knowledge of any kind and the fact I had only learnt programming by teaching myself over the previous 12 months was some kind of drawback...
...they were right of course, after a total of 3 years programming im just about at the point where I know most of the common os api's without having to look them up everytime I use them...

life is like that
Friday, August 23, 2002

A quote comes to mind, Groucho Marx said

I sent the club a wire stating, Please accept my resignation... I don't want to belong to any club that will accept me as a member.

Patrik
Friday, August 23, 2002

A popular anecdote:

A few years ago, there was a Mensa convention in San Francisco and a bunch of Mensa members were lunching at a local café.

They discovered that their salt shaker contained pepper and their pepper shaker was full of salt.

What to do? How could they swap the contents of the bottles without spilling, and using only the implements at hand?

Clearly this was a job for Mensa !!!

The group debated, presented ideas, and deliberated. Finally, they came up with a brilliant solution involving a napkin, a straw, and an empty saucer.

They called the waitress over to dazzle her with their solution and get her reaction.

"Ma'am," they said, "We couldn't help but notice that the pepper shaker contains salt and the salt shaker contains pepper."

"Oh," the nonplussed waitress interrupted. "Sorry about that."

She quickly unscrewed the caps of both bottles, switched them, and said, "Will that be one check or separate?"

It's Probably True
Friday, August 23, 2002

>My partner is interested in finding out about it... she has an IQ of arond 145...(what is the IQ required for membership in MENSA?)

In the upper 2% of the population.

What numerical score that correlates to depends on the test. The Stanford-Binet assigns 17 points to a Standard Deviation. Other tests tend to assign 15 points to a Standard Deviation.

Regarding farmers, we have a commercial avocado grove so I guess I is one of them farmer types. Most farmers I have made the acquaintence of are of substantially above-average brightness and well as a fair portion of common sense. Without that it's hard to get by in a sector as brutal and competitive as farming. We make a little on the avocados and sometimes its more than the machinist's salary, other times its a total loss and we subsidize it. So I'd say the farmers who maintain a profit year after year are a lot smarter than me.

Ed the Millwright
Friday, August 23, 2002

Makes me wanna go out and find a "MENSA for Dummies" book!!

Joe AA
Saturday, August 24, 2002

Oh great, give me a link I cant use during work hours :(

James Ladd
Monday, August 26, 2002

>>>  from the latin "minsa" meaning table. <<<

Perhaps there are variations in spelling, but according to both my dictionary and the Mensa web site the Latin for table is "mensa".  And this is the origin of the name.

Concerning tests: there are several options for testing.  One may use SAT scores.

More at the Mensa web site.  I'll leave the URL as a trivial excercise for the reader.  :-)

mackinac
Monday, August 26, 2002

Yes it's interesting:

Mensa (pl. mensae)
f table
a. meal, food, course; table
mensa secunda - dessert
b. sacrificial table
c. counter of a money-changer

So you might ask (despite Mensa's accounting of the story of their name) - which of these has anything to do with being smart?

Of interest is another Latin word:

mens (pl. mentis)
f mind, intellect, understanding
a) judgment, discernment
b) disposition, feeling, character, heart soul; spirit, courage, boldness, passion, impulse
c) thought, idea, opinion
d) plan, purpose

Here's my own theory:
The founders were either thinking of mentis and didn't bother to actually look it up but assumed they knew best.
Or the founders were thinking of 'mental' and thought mensa was a word they made up without checking into it.

Notice in both cases a lack of diligence in checking because of belief they are really smart and don't make mistakes.

Notice also the "cover-up" -- the changing the story to be about tables and such as if that was their intention from the beginning.

Wager: the founder who picked the name is an ENTP -- the creative sociopath (mental case) who knows better than every one else and does not need to bother checking facts before making big decisions, then does what is necessary to cover-up his mistakes, but never ever ever to his deathbed will admit to them.

Not all Mensans are like that.

But if you have one on your development team -- watch out!

Ed the Millwright (former Mentian)
Monday, August 26, 2002

I once attended a speech by Isaac Asimov at MIT.  When he mentioned that he was the honorary president (or some such) of MENSA, the audience hissed.

Seth Gordon
Tuesday, August 27, 2002


Wager: the founder who picked the name is an ENTP -- the creative sociopath
            (mental case) who knows better than every one else and does not need to bother
            checking facts before making big decisions, then does what is necessary to
            cover-up his mistakes, but never ever ever to his deathbed will admit to them.


Hey, I'm an ENTP, and I get on fine. So do my co-workers. And Sociopath is a technical term, meaning what used to be called psychopath, and shouldn't be used lightly.

Not a Mental Case
Tuesday, August 27, 2002

Everybody's entitled to their opinion, but I think most people posting in this thread are spouting off about the wrong things. Many people here are passing judgement on the organization and all of its members based on conjecture about the typical MENSA member's motivation for joining. I am not a member but I went to one of their testing sessions (in which they administer two IQ tests) and qualified. I was interested in joining because it seemed like some of the events might be fun and it's another way to meet some people. I don't see anything wrong with that, do you? Is the general public's perception of the organization important if you have fun and meet interesting people? Even helpful feedback from current and former members isn't going to help you if you join and find out that your local chapter happens to be full of socially inept duds.

I say that if you think you might have fun, join. Give it a shot and see what happens. I may yet do the same, I just found other things to occupy my time so far.

Ryan Eibling
Tuesday, August 27, 2002

Oh, and I have to say something about the "IQ tests are crap" thing. That's what I thought until a few years ago. Although they may not  mean exactly what people think they mean, in my personal experience they have been *incredibly* consistent. I've taken three IQ tests in my life (don't know specifically which ones): one in kindergarten (for admission to a "gifted" program at school) and two for MENSA in 1999. Two of the scores were exactly the same and the other was a single point off. That's pretty remarkable to me, and seems like it must be fairly accurately measuring something.

Ryan Eibling
Tuesday, August 27, 2002

IQ tests may be consistent, but the Myers Briggs stuff isn't. I took the test about 15 years ago, and it said I was an ISTJ.  I took it again about 7 years ago, and two of my letters changed (can't remember which ones).

After I took the test the second time, I dug up a bunch of references that argued that the whole thing is a bunch of B.S.  I was going to send all articles to the people who made me take the test, but then I got cold feet, and never did it.

Anonymous coward
Tuesday, August 27, 2002

Also regarding Robin Debreuil's suggestion that "IQ tests are pretty much full of crap", it should be noted that, in general, Robin's probably correct.  In study after study, IQ tends not to be a predictor of success in life.  However, IQ is very much a predictor of success in technical fields - and this *is* a discussion board for technical people!

SZP
Wednesday, August 28, 2002

Well I'm sure each one measures something, they are tests after all. Just it isn't intelligence. We like to think things like pattern recognition or logic are where intelligence lies, but in reality these are just simple things that humans tend to be awful at. Something like language is so much more of a complex a task they can't even be compared. Just everyone is wired for some language, so it is harder to separate them out. It is probably also much harder for someone who thinks they are smart to admit that a degree in English lit is a greater intellectual accomplishment than a degree in computer engineering.

I can imagine the day when computers out do us in recognizing patterns, logic, and memory (soon). But it seems pretty far off before they can hold a conversation at the level of a Joel on Software Mensa thread - probably the high water mark of modern civilization so it would be tough.

We are testing the brain for some obscure side effect, happy defect really, and then joining a smug club over it. If there is any reason to have that kind of club it would be to help each other with the things they/we tend to lack - social skills, a good immune system, perspective, loose grip on head (I include myself in this group, not trying to put anyone down) (actually to be honest I'm trying to subtly boost my ego while avoiding the membership fees).

I totally agree with the hard work = success thing, I read one study isolated it to 'high energy people', you know always animated, bouncing around, often more excited than seems necessary... That wouldn't surprise me at all either.  I think we are all close enough that it comes down to 'who wastes less of their day'. With computers and machines, it is a freak time in history, where we have built these machines, but we haven't tamed them to the point that they come to us. So yeah that kind of thinking has value at this point in time anyway, but even at this point it has little bearing on being successful.

Robin

PS This is a technical fourm? That was a technical question?!?

Robin Debreuil
Wednesday, August 28, 2002

Ok, sorry for the overgeneralizing on the ENTP thing. There's just a correlation between testing ENTP and having antisocial personality disorder. And yes, I know the technical meaning of the term.

Charismatic, highly intelligent, astute insight into the motivations of others, and biochemical inability to learn from mistakes.

Not all ENTPs are sociopaths. Probably not many at all. But more so than for other types.

Ed
Thursday, August 29, 2002

WTF is an ENTP?


Thursday, August 29, 2002

It's that thing you get when you type ENTP into Google.

anon
Thursday, August 29, 2002

There are 70+ pages of links from Google for ENTP, of which I am sure more than one relates to what was ebing discussed. I am also sure that some of them do not.


Thursday, August 29, 2002

ENTP is a personality genotype generated by the myers briggs personality type inventory

the pairs are:

Extroverted/Introverted
iNtuitive/Sensing
Thinking/Feeling
Perceiving/Judging

the names are taken from Jung.

you can be 100% E or 51% or 10% (which is 90% I)

personality types are set by age 7 and usually don't change much, but if you're in the 40-60% range on one you can swing.

it's less likely to be it the middle of a range than near the sides.

Ed
Thursday, August 29, 2002

Robin wrote: "It is probably also much harder for someone who thinks they are smart to admit that a degree in English lit is a greater intellectual accomplishment than a degree in computer engineering."

I dont' know about that.

I know a guy who has a Master's degree in English.  He doesn't even know how to write a paragraph without making a couple of elementary grammar mistakes.  From what I understand, English departments haven't taught grammar in years.

Sadly, these days an English degree only means that you spend your time slinging bullshit words and phrases, like "hermeneutics", "mythopoetical", or "predeconstructivist".

http://www.zmag.org/letter_from_yale.htm

J. D. Trollinger
Thursday, August 29, 2002

Poor bastards...they have to come up with long, convoluted sentences full of obscure words in order to conceal their ignorance, instead of having access to an endless supply of meaningless buzzwords and acronyms like us.

Dunno Wair
Thursday, August 29, 2002

Robin wrote: "It is probably also much harder for someone who thinks they are smart to admit that a degree in English lit is a greater intellectual accomplishment than a degree in computer engineering."

If that's true, then why did I need 135 credit hours to get my engineering degree when my english major friends only needed 120?

Chris Tavares
Thursday, August 29, 2002

For the same reason you need 1000+ hours/year of class time to get a high school diploma and 0 hours of class time to get a PhD?

Dunno Wair
Thursday, August 29, 2002

Poor bastards...they have to come up with long, convoluted sentences full of obscure words in order to conceal their ignorance, instead of having access to an endless supply of meaningless buzzwords and acronyms like us.



..Im not a gay man, but would consider making an exception (if its necessary) for the individual who wrote the above sentence.....
<g> ...its just that clever...

life is like that
Thursday, August 29, 2002

On the other hand, take this example from the recent thread about bad UI design:

"Well, epistemologically speaking, a bad UI design is still bad, regardless of it's ubiquity, because truth is immutable. IE, given we discern through logic badness and goodness of an empirical, artificial machine (a computer program), it's ubiquity is totally irrelevant."

... I'd say we have the worst of both worlds.

Adrian Gilby
Thursday, August 29, 2002

"If that's true, then why did I need 135 credit hours to get my engineering degree when my english major friends only needed 120?"

I guess because English majors are smarter? What else could that possibly mean?

The point is reading a book, or even speaking a sentence is a way more difficult task than calculating stresses on a bridge or programming a chip. Just we suck at it. It may be already possible to make computer program that scores 200 on an IQ test, but it certainly still can't read. This isn't because the deck is stacked in machines to favor logic and math, it is because math and logic are bone-ass simple problems compared to language. 

"I know a guy who has a Master's degree in English. He doesn't even know how to write a paragraph without making a couple of elementary grammar mistakes. "

How could someone go through university, get a degree, and somehow not have the superior knowledge? I just don't understand how your friend could have slipped through the cracks. Have you reported him?

Robin Debreuil
Friday, August 30, 2002

"How could someone go through university, get a degree, and somehow not have the superior knowledge?"

Oh man ... I was just taking a sip from my coke. That's another keyboard wasted. Good one, Robin!

Just me (Sir to you)
Monday, September 02, 2002

By the way, does anyone here know what the mensa admissions test is like? Are the questions pictorial ones, numerical ones or word puzzles? And, can i get my hands on a sample test or something that simulates closely the real test? I am interested in joining and hope to familiarize myself with what kind of questions there are so i wont be shell-shocked during the real test. Any help will be appreciated.


                                                                Sgt Nevsky

Nevsky
Wednesday, March 31, 2004

I'm a member of Mensa and I don't appreciate it being referred to as, "elitest." We are a group that have something in common, just like the rich flock to the rich or the pretty gravitate toward the pretty.

Initially I thought it would look good on a résumé, then thought it might look too pretentious. Ultimately I joined to meet women (friends too I suppose) and maybe get a better job. Is being a member of a medical board elitest?

For once there's an organization where you can't buy your way in or be turned down because you don't "have the right look." Acceptance is based on achievement. Something far too rare these days if you ask me.

Many groups exist in the world that are not designated as, "elitest." Fashion groups, chess clubs, bands, sports teams, and the list is endless.

As far as what the tests are like? There are two given in the same session. The first is the Wonderlic test - 50 questions, 12 minutes. The questions are relatively simple, the obstacle is time - only 14.4 seconds per question. A score of roughly 38 or 39 will get you in.

The second test has 120 questions and takes about 45 minutes. The questions run the gamut from remebering a story, to looking at pictures, to coin counting, to defining words.

Pass either test and you're in. You really can't cheat because if you decide to remember all the answers, you're probably bright enough to pass in the first place! Plus the fact that the time constraint is so enormous, remembering your falsly gotten answers might take longer than the 14.4 seconds you have to figure it out to begin with! Also, there are many versions of these two tests, so the odds that you get the exact same test are slim at best. In any event, the 50 question, 12 minute test is the Wonderlic (WPT) and the other is the Otis-Lennon test. Speed is the key to passing these tests.

By the way, trying to find ACTUAL, not sample questions on the web is nearly impossible (I tried when I had to wait the two weeks for the results - very nerve-wracking ordeal). I know you can buy the tests online if that helps.

Best of luck!

Bluto
Sunday, April 11, 2004

?

?
Sunday, April 11, 2004

What about adding the affirmative actions and quota system in mensa?

Mr flybye
Saturday, June 19, 2004

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