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Top programming language

Hi,

Where can I found which programming language is most used?
I think Java have the biggest progression …
But how is it with  C#,C++,Smaltalk,ruby,….

Ben.
Tuesday, August 20, 2002

Good question.

I recommend a door-to-door survey.

Dunno Wair
Tuesday, August 20, 2002


Is this a troll or what?

When I am nailing boards, I use a hammer. 
When I am connecting screws, I use a screw-driver.
When I am connecting bolts/nuts, I use a wrathet or wrench.

In other words, I like to use the best tool for the best job.

Short, Quick, Internal GUI App for Winders?  VB.
Multi-Tier Shrink-Wrapped App for Customers? C++.
Short, Quick, Internal Text App? Perl.
Maintainence programming on an ancient AS/400? RPG
Maint. Programming on ancient VAX? Probably COBOL


If that's the question you were really asking, see above comments.  (I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume you're not trolling.)

regards,

Matt H.
Tuesday, August 20, 2002

Troll ?

No I'm not a troll just trying find my next programming language I will learn on Weekends.
I'm using Java on my job so it will probably learn Smalltalk or C#.

Ben.
Tuesday, August 20, 2002

A couple of years ago this question would be real easy:

Most programmers currently using: VB
Most lines of code in existence: Cobol

(Note, this is my unscientific guess, but probably fairly accurate)

Now things are a bit muddier. Java has certainly made some inroads into the VB figure, though I wouldn't be surprised if VB6 is still the most used language out there. C# and VB.NET are likely to gradually take off, but probably represent a small percentage at the moment.

I don't think Smalltalk is used much, though it is interesting as a pure OO language.

However, if you're trying to decide what language to learn next, there are plenty of things to consider. The main one is what application you envision using it for. For example VB may be the most commonly used language out there, but if you write engineering software, it may not be a lot of help to you.

Also you should consider whether learning more languages is the best way to advance your career. It may be, but you should also consider whether learning more about formal design methodologies or project management would be more advantageous in the long run.

Hope this helps!

James

James Shields
Tuesday, August 20, 2002

I'll be there's a hundred times as much C code out there as COBOL.

And a couple of years ago most programmers had the dignity to be embarrased about "programming" in VB and would never admit to it.

Dunno Wair
Tuesday, August 20, 2002

"And a couple of years ago most programmers had the dignity to be embarrased about "programming" in VB and would never admit to it. "

God I'm sick of this 'holier-than-thou' programming language selection argument.  If you can't see VB for its benefits in RAD then fine.  But a lot of people don't need a industrial-grade pneumatic-nailer just to hang up a picture.

Dignified VB AND C Programmer
Tuesday, August 20, 2002

I know I shouldn't have said it, but this didn't look like it was going to be much of a thread anyway.

My only real beef with VB is that it allows the unqualified to produce shiny, professional looking apps with the most inefficient, unreliable, non-sensical innards you could imagine.

Obviously in the hands of an able user it's a powerful tool, but seeing it in use by the untrained gives me the same nauseated, infuriated feeling I get when I see suburbanite driveways filled with SUVs.

Dunno Wair
Tuesday, August 20, 2002

...and a professional who makes a living expertly using an industrial-grade pneumatic-nailer doesn't get hired to hang up pictures.

Dunno Wair
Tuesday, August 20, 2002

Most of the good job sites show what the top skills are.  For example, in the UK theres the Computer Weekly site :

http://www.cwjobs.co.uk/cw_br/jobsearch.asp

These are based on whats being advertised, rather than whats being used, which is probably a better indicator for your purposes.

Ged Byrne
Tuesday, August 20, 2002

"...gives me the same nauseated, infuriated feeling I get when I see suburbanite driveways filled with SUVs."

Ha!  For some reason this rubs me the wrong way as well.

"...and a professional who makes a living expertly using an industrial-grade pneumatic-nailer doesn't get hired to hang up pictures. "

Surely he hangs up his/her own pictures... and then I'm assuming he just uses a hammer.  I know the analogy isn't perfect, but I'm sure you know what I'm going for.

Dignified VB AND C Programmer
Tuesday, August 20, 2002

["...gives me the same nauseated, infuriated feeling I get when I see suburbanite driveways filled with SUVs."]

Do you ponder this while sipping a quad latte mocha frappaccino-spresso while lightly polishing your horned rim glasses in your black mock turtle neck? You rebel. You break from the norm and make your own rules. Now go drive your VW/Saab/Volvo/Bicycle/Electric Terd off a holier than though cliff.


*Ian strikes pose, cocks his head up at camera with fisheye lens 3' above his head, and thinks of his chi while doodling on handheld*

Ian Stallings
Tuesday, August 20, 2002

Whoops.  An offended suburbanite SUV driver.

Nope.  Extra-large black Colombian dark roast.  Contact lenses.  Short-sleeve button-down.  I don't own a car (or a bike...not sure what to say about the terd [sic] or the holier than though [sic] cliff) because I live and work downtown.

*Unable to get the spellchecker on his handheld working, Ian slams the door on his highway-driven SUV and throws a hissy fit for the camera.*

Dunno Wair
Tuesday, August 20, 2002

No, not offended, just laughing. If only you could find a way to tow a boat to the lake with your two feet. Or pack 3 kids into your button down shirt pocket. 

I like how you qualified the exact type of coffee you sip. I am impressed by your sophistication.  I don't own a handheld. It was an attempt to mock sophisticated urbanites like yourself. But apparently you threw an AnalSpellCheckerException.

I look forward to more jokes at your expense sir.

Ian Stallings
Tuesday, August 20, 2002

"When I am nailing boards, I use a hammer.
When I am connecting screws, I use a screw-driver.
When I am connecting bolts/nuts, I use a wrathet or wrench."

When I am making code I use my head.

(If only to hit the keyboard with.)


Wednesday, August 21, 2002

Wow, I was expecting a language war, and instead its class war!

This board never fails to surpise.

Personally I aspire to both a SUV and a suburban driveway.  Still making do with a Jalopy.

Ged Byrne
Wednesday, August 21, 2002

Excuse my ignorance, but what exactly is an SUV? I don't think we use the term in england.

On topic, I believe the languages current most in use are VB, C and C++. But I could be wrong.

Mr Jack
Wednesday, August 21, 2002

>>Excuse my ignorance, but what exactly is an SUV? I don't think we use the term in england.>>

A huge car for someone with a small brain

Anon
Wednesday, August 21, 2002

Mr Jack... think of all the huge 4x4s (landcruiser/range rover/ bmw X5 etx) in Knightsbridge, London.

Basically huge gas guzzlers that never see a dirt road.

tapiwa
Wednesday, August 21, 2002

There was a joke a my expense in there?

I'm quite possibly the least sophisticated individual you are likely to meet...I don't even own a boat

Colombian dark roast is probably the most generic of coffees, available at any coffee shop; I find this facilitates my philosophy of quantity over quality, as does drinking beer out of quart bottles.

I think you've got us reversed on the pretension scale, son.

Dunno Wair
Wednesday, August 21, 2002

For something completely different I suggest two possibilities.

One: Something from the Lisp family. Perhaps scheme as it's cleaner than common lisp and helps you understand "The Structure and Interpretation of Computer Languages". For the bleading edge perhaps goo, or arc when it's out.

Two: A functional language, either Haskell or Standard-ML or O'Caml.  These provide a very different perspective on what programming is.

Personally I write Java for a living at the moment. I've found experience with scheme and haskell useful though. My little knowledge of the concepts of functional programming has proved very useful when writing xslt of all things!

Alex Moffat
Wednesday, August 21, 2002

["There was a joke a my expense in there?"]
Yes, I called you anal. If you wish to take that as an insult fine, but I got a laugh.

My point was, I can't find a car to tow a boat that I also can pack 3 kids in that I liked. Am I really such an idiot because I drive an SUV? Just as you made a broad swipe against all those who drive SUVs and live in the suburbs I also can make broad assumptions on who you are and how you live. Judging a person by the type of vehicle they drive or the area that they live is plain stupid. Just as you get a "nauseated, infuriated feeling" when you see suburbanite driveways filled with SUVs, I also get the same feeling when I see people making broad ASSumptions on who those people are. SUVs have become the target of the hip, automatically associating them with small brained idiots trying to fit the status quo and that simply isn't true.

Ian Stallings
Wednesday, August 21, 2002

Oh, I see.  Actually, I am pretty anal.  I have a fairly obsessive attention to detail that I think makes me good at what I do.  It's also probably the reason I drink too much...I have trouble relaxing.

Unfortunately, you misinterpreted what I said.  It's not  SUVs themselves that give me that feeling, it's the sheer quantity of them.  I know that only a small fraction of those people who own SUVs do so for utilitarian reasons (apparently you might be one of these, with a boat to haul).  The rest buy them as status symbols for their daily freeway commutes, and never even get them dirty (and I defy you to refute the truth of this).

Maybe judging a person by the type of vehicle they drive or the area that they live IS plain stupid...but surely judging people by thier opinions without asking for the underlying reasons is at least as foolish.

Dunno Wair
Wednesday, August 21, 2002

I'll tell what does annoy me.

People who drive gas guzzling SUVs who then complain that the cost of petrol is far too high.

They are obviously contradicting themselves, because if the price of petrol was far to high, they wouldn't be able afford such inefficient vehicles.

I feel sorry for those whose livlihood depends on fuel and have to pay high taxes on their diesel because of the governments efforts to curb the excesses of the posers.

Ged Byrne
Wednesday, August 21, 2002

I thought the high price of petrol was part of the status symbol appeal of owning an SUV.

Look closely...
http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/076454862X.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Dunno Wair
Wednesday, August 21, 2002

For some reason I'm getting considerable enjoyment out of this thread.

"Maybe judging a person by the type of vehicle they drive or the area that they live IS plain stupid..."

True, it is.  However, the ubiquity of stereotype (ab)use leads me to believe that everyone takes *some* kind of stock in them.  There are good and bad types of stereotyping, but in many cases the stereotype is there for a reason.  (I get the feeling that last sentence is going to be taken the wrong way.)

In my high school days (~6 yrs ago) I worked at my grandfather's car dealership, and even then, out of the people that bought an SUV, few actually had a reason other than aesthetics or status.  This was even before the redesign of most modern SUV's to accomodate a wider female demographic.  At that time, it was even kind of sad that some of the buyers were interested in "safety", but the roll incidence on those things were ridiculous, meaning people would overcorrect on steering and flip the behemoths.

There is a good use for SUV's and if you need one for those purposes (towing, procreation proficiency, etc.), that's all fine and good.  But Dunno Wair has a point, the people that buy based on those needs are few and far between (in my experience, anyway).

Dignified VB AND C Programmer
Wednesday, August 21, 2002

Gads... So some years ago, I take the notion to ride a ride called "Cannonball".  Its a bike ride that goes one way, and at the end you need a car to get you back home. 

I donate my Suburban to the cause, as we can get 5 riders plus the driver back in comfort to Seattle, plus all the bikes on the roof.

Oh, but wait, one of the riders (bicyclists, especially in Seattle, are notoriously weird this way), won't ride in an SUV.  Really, there we are, its 3 AM at the start and its raining and she's objecting to an SUV.

Anyhow, my other car is a Bianchi.

Nat Ersoz
Wednesday, August 21, 2002

>>Wair has a point, the people that buy based on those needs are few and far between (in my experience, anyway).

And that's the beauty of capitalism: the efficient distribution of goods.  So, nauseated as you might be, it wasn't your purchase.  Capital baby.

Nat Ersoz
Wednesday, August 21, 2002

["The rest buy them as status symbols for their daily freeway commutes, and never even get them dirty (and I defy you to refute the truth of this)"]

I wouldn't try and refute that. There are plenty that see vehicles as status symbols, that's for sure. I once asked a coworker why he owned a sports car with all kinds of racing extras, thinking maybe he actually raced it on the street or at the track like some others I know, and he replied "It's a status symbol". I was taken back by his honesty and sort of shocked at his vanity. I hope no one describes me like that because I drive an SUV.

["but surely judging people by thier opinions without asking for the underlying reasons is at least as foolish"]

Certainly. I jumped to a conclusion and should have delved further.

Ian Stallings
Wednesday, August 21, 2002

But Nat, surely establishing the _need_ for the goods is a necessary (and moral) precursor to implementing their efficient distribution?

(Apparently, I'm just looking for trouble this week.)

Dunno Wair
Wednesday, August 21, 2002

"And that's the beauty of capitalism: the efficient distribution of goods."

Could you elaborate on this?  I'm afraid I don't see the connection between capitalism and the "efficient" distribution of goods.  Maybe there's a semantics problem.

"So, nauseated as you might be, it wasn't your purchase."

Good point, but I think disagreement is part of the grand purpose of discussion boards.

"Capital baby."

All right then.

Dignified VB AND C Programmer
Wednesday, August 21, 2002


According to Acme's Department of Statistics and Irresponsible Bets, about 99% of people who owns a SUV would do just as fine with a family sedan.

Don't buy a SUV if you don't need one, please. This can be translated as "just don't buy a SUV". But, as SUV owners and NRA members are made of the same stuff, they will find a way to justify their point of view.

Leonardo Herrera
Wednesday, August 21, 2002

Try a google search against "efficient markets".  What you will find are theories about stock price.  The same holds true for any good and service.  That is, in an efficient market (one which there are very low barriers to entry, the consumer has access to information and freedom of choice) goods are sold only at market value.  Not higher, not lower, just the market price.  No subsidies, no barriers.

Same for the SUV.  Someone bought the car, with their limited funds and reckoned that the car was worth the asking price.  They were not subsidized to buy it, the car was not subsidized to be produced, there were no external factors other than a market good and consumer.

Now, one may argue that if petrol were sold at true market value - that is the price necessary to keep a standing army in the gulf, the price of cleaning CO out of the air, acid rain, road maintenance, ... then you would not likely get an argument from me.  However, you never hear much about pricing gasoline at $US 5/gallon, because its a "regressive tax" - and we can't have that now....

Its a good day to get into trouble.  Along the same lines:  When the politicians reach for the next sin tax (alchohol, tobacco, etc.) make sure they include VB with that.

Nat Ersoz
Wednesday, August 21, 2002

Geesh, the guys asks a simple question and gets hassled for it.

Ben, if you already know Java, then learn Smalltalk !!!
Those people that I have worked with in any language that also knew smalltalk, were better programmers !!

Regs,

James Ladd
Wednesday, August 21, 2002

Poor Ben, he asks a legitimate question.  It's always useful to have some familiarity with the most popular language, even if it's dull as dirt.  English might be a little nuts, but it's still useful to know for CS people.

I know there are some reasonably sane statistics out there.  I recall it's something like VB, C++ and COBOL for apps.

Java was the fastest growing, but no doubt C# is now because it's starting from 0 but backed by MSFT.

anon
Wednesday, August 21, 2002

Stop back tomorrow when the topic will be:

The World's Best Text Editor is...

ryan ware
Thursday, August 22, 2002

Nat,

I think my problem with that philosophy is that everything would be fine and good if the U.S. truly practiced a laissez-faire government.  But we don't.  Instead we're constantly trying to legislate morality and regulate the economy.

"When the politicians reach for the next sin tax (alchohol, tobacco, etc.) make sure they include VB with that. "

I already drink and smoke, so I'm screwed on that... they might as well tax VB.  I'm surprised I don't have to pay to take a p*ss.  (Funny, when I think about it, I did have to a couple of times in Europe.  Hmm.)

Dignified VB AND C Programmer
Thursday, August 22, 2002

> I think my problem with that philosophy is that
> everything would be fine and good if the U.S. truly
> practiced a laissez-faire government.

It still wouldn't work. Capitalism doesn't work because of the exact same reason that socialism didn't work: Human nature (or what passes as human nature, these days). And, before you ask, no, I don't have any alternative.

Actually, we (humans) are hopeless. We have this delusion of using our "amazing" brainpower to build perfect societies, and then this is the best we can come up with.

Anyway, I don't think anybody believes in anything anymore, so what's the difference?

Paulo Caetano
Thursday, August 22, 2002

"And, before you ask, no, I don't have any alternative."

I wasn't going to ask. ;)  If you had a truly great one, I doubt you'd be looking on JoS just dying to find a thread related to politics!

I understand your point about human nature.  I guess it's just the optimist in me that really hopes it's not as bleak as all that.

Dignified VB AND C Programmer
Thursday, August 22, 2002

> I doubt you'd be looking on JoS just dying to find a
> thread related to politics!

Actually, I was really looking for another "civilized debate" about programming languages/tools. Over the years I've learnt to minimize my intervention in these things, but I still like to watch a good shoot-out... err, I mean, conversation ;)

> I guess it's just the optimist in me that really hopes
> it's not as bleak as all that.

Well, I hope the optimist in is right about the future, and the pessimist in me is wrong :)

Paulo Caetano
Thursday, August 22, 2002

Hey Dignified,

This thread has taken on a definite philosophical tone, so I'm going to go slag VB over in this thread for a while...

http://discuss.fogcreek.com/joelonsoftware/default.asp?cmd=show&ixPost=13940&ixReplies=9

See you there?

Dunno Wair
Thursday, August 22, 2002

"See you there?"

I wouldn't miss it. :)

Dignified VB AND C Programmer
Thursday, August 22, 2002

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