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Indian Vacations

Around here, the H1b dudes from India typically take a 2-4 or sometimes even six month vacation about once every two years where they go back home and visit relatives and stuff like that; have a good time all around.

Anyone other workplaces where this is normal?

Personally I'm jealous. I'd like to get some time off too.

Sarain H.
Tuesday, August 06, 2002

Yes, in Germany.  Except you normally don't get to accumulate them if you don't take all your days off in a year.  Nice attempt at an h1b flame war. ;)

jason
Tuesday, August 06, 2002

Personally, I'm looking for an employer who gives me 52 weeks paid vacation a year.

Andrew Simmons
Wednesday, August 07, 2002

> Personally, I'm looking for an employer who gives me 52 weeks paid vacation a year.

What about being a high-class gigolo?

auntie anne
Wednesday, August 07, 2002

30 something days off are totally normal in Europe...plus we only work 37 to 40 hours normally. Plus unlimited sickness days.

Hey, and we usually make about the same salaries ;-)

European Guy
Wednesday, August 07, 2002

>30 something days off are totally normal in Europe...plus
>we only work 37 to 40 hours normally. Plus unlimited
>sickness days.

>Hey, and we usually make about the same salaries ;-)

Well, not quite. Typical is somewhere between 23 and 26 days. And that is with 40 hours per week.
Then there are those who have contracts for 38 hours, but are expected to work 40 hours anyway. The missing hours are compensated for by means of extra days. Your milage may vary.

But, this is certainly not a Europe thing. More likely it is something you will find in Western Europe only and than still it is probably restricted to areas like The Netherlands, Scandinavia, France, Germany, et cetera. It think it is highly unlikely that you find this outside of the European Union (whoch does not equal Europe by far).

Unlimited sick days. Well, that depends on your insurance. Some pay as soon as you become sick (whether for a day or a week or...), but some won't until the nth day of sick leave.
Some employers compensate for those days, some don't. Some send an inspector, some don't.

As for wages, that varies as much as it probably does within the US itself...

Erik van Linstee
Wednesday, August 07, 2002

"H1b dudes from India typically take a 2-4 or sometimes even six month vacation"

Vacation is probably the wrong word - you probably either mean 'unpaid sabbatical' or 'unpaid between contract'. The key here is 'unpaid' - I'm sure your boss would consider letting you go for several months if he didn't have to pay you (several people have done this with my current company).

At a previous job one of the guys went back to India for several months - he said it was easy to do since it was about the same cost as a 2 week vacation in the US would have been. He said he was saving his money and planed to retire at 45 back in India and live like a Rajah (his wording).

jeff
Wednesday, August 07, 2002

European Guy '30 something days off are totally normal in Europe...plus we only work 37 to 40 hours normally. Plus unlimited sickness days.

Hey, and we usually make about the same salaries ;-) '

That's why Europe can't compete with the US of A.  So they want us to tie our hands behind our backs with silly treaties.  As long as we have a good President that won't happen.  An asshole like Clinton however....

Greg Kellerman
Wednesday, August 07, 2002

"European Guy '30 something days off are totally normal in Europe...plus we only work 37 to 40 hours normally. Plus unlimited sickness days.

Hey, and we usually make about the same salaries ;-) '

That's why Europe can't compete with the US of A. So they want us to tie our hands behind our backs with silly treaties. As long as we have a good President that won't happen."

You won't mind US companies outsourcing their development to, say, China, where having a holiday is rare and wages are much lower, then.

sd
Wednesday, August 07, 2002

Lets not forget that the cost of living
in Europe is typically much higher.

A cheap 2-bed house in commuting distance from London can be $US200K. A cheap restaurant meal $US30. A compact car
$US20K.

And who says Europe can't compete with US?
Look at your stock markets.

Englishman in Canada
Wednesday, August 07, 2002

> A cheap 2-bed house in commuting distance from London
> can be $US200K. A cheap restaurant meal $US30. A
> compact car $US20K.

I guess you don't leave in San Francisco. Average home price is more like $450K. $200K might be able to buy a house in the ghetto.

Zoot Suit
Wednesday, August 07, 2002

"I guess you don't leave in San Francisco. Average home price is more like $450K. $200K might be able to buy a house in the ghetto. "


Homes in the Bay Area ghettos are down to $200K now?  The market has improved since I was there! :)

Crimson
Wednesday, August 07, 2002

Kellerman wrote:
>That's why Europe can't compete with the US of A. So >they want us to tie our hands behind our backs with silly >treaties. As long as we have a good President that won't >happen. An asshole like Clinton however....

Yet somehow the US was dominant economically during the Clinton years, while we've puttered along during the Bush years (and I'm assuming you classify Bush as a "good" President ).  Care to explain that?  Though judging from the thought put into your first post, I'm starting to wonder if I really want to hear your explanation.

BTW, Clinton is gone people. G. O. N. E.  He's no longer President.  I wonder if there's a statue of limitations on blaming Clinton for all that's wrong with the world?  Probably not. =8^)

Amused
Wednesday, August 07, 2002

>>Yet somehow the US was dominant economically during the Clinton years, while we've puttered along during the Bush years (and I'm assuming you classify Bush as a "good" President ). <<

First, a small point - the economic downturn started at the end of Clinton's administration and is now running it's course.  Some people blame the current downturn on the excessive greed and general internet economy over-hype that occured in the 90's (Clinton's terms).

Does that mean that Clinton should take credit for the economic dominance of the 90's?  Does that mean he should take the blame now?  Does that mean that Bush should take the blame now?  Does that mean that Bush should take credit when the economy rebounds?

The answers are NO, NO, NO, and NO.

First, economic cycles are going to happen whoever is in office.

Second, I really get p'ed off when the ecomony booms due to all the hard work and ingenuity of the American people and some a**wipe in the Whitehouse (Democrat or Republican) is given credit for it all.  It's a slap in the face.

Think about it - the President can affect the economy in four primary ways (maybe more, I'm not an economist) - monetary policy, fiscal policy, regulatory policy, and goodwill.

Monetary policy (interest rates, money supply, etc.) is set by the Fed, so the only real control of this that the President has is who they appoint to head the Fed.

Fiscal policy (taxation and spending) is an over-rated economic stimulus / deterrent.  Approximately 62% of the budget is mandated by law.  The other 38% comes from a budget that the President 'proposes'.  I say 'proposes' because it still has to originate in the House, get passed on and approved (with modifications, of course) by the Senate, then be signed into law by the President.  How much of a President's typical proposal remains intact?  Further, I don't think I've ever seem an economic stimulus package that actually stimulated the economy.  They're fodder for the polls.

Regulatory policy (trade, environmental, misc. laws) is probably where the President has the biggest impact on the economy.  As far as trade, Clinton actually went against many in his party and voted for NAFTA and was generally conservative leaning on most free-trade issues, so I don't really see much difference between the Presidents.  Believe it or not, I don't think that there's much difference between their environmental policies either.  Clinton wasn't as big as advocate for environmental issues as Al Gore was and really didn't push any sweeping changes.  Bush definitely won't be spotted at any tree sittings any time in the future (unless he's carrying a chain saw), but he's actually not as bad as most people would believe either.

That leaves the last issue - goodwill.  I believe that the President can affect the economy by lifting the nation's optimistism and promoting goodwill throughout the world.  But I'm still reminded of an article that I read in the 90's about a bunch of Wall Street conservatives that were planning to vote for Clinton in the '96 election.  Why?  Because the Republicans held both the House and the Senate and the general feeling was that having an opposite in the White House was a good idea.  Each party impedes the excesses of the other party, limiting that damage that they can do.

Nick Hebb
Wednesday, August 07, 2002

Kellerman wrote:
>That's why Europe can't compete with the US of A. So >they want us to tie our hands behind our backs with silly >treaties. As long as we have a good President that won't >happen. An asshole like Clinton however....

Amused responded:
>Yet somehow the US was dominant economically during >the Clinton years, while we've puttered along during the >Bush years (and I'm assuming you classify Bush as >a "good" President ). Care to explain that? >Though .judging from the thought put into your first post, >I'm starting to wonder if I really want to hear your >explanation.

The simple explanation is that you missed the context of my original post.  I was positing that Europe has more liberal labor laws which makes them inefficient compared to us in the US that work and produce more per capita.  They wanted to have a treaty that would hobble us to make us less efficient like them.  That way they don't have to compete to become more competitive.  After all the original post was about vacation time and salaries and such wasn't it?

Or if you WANT a flame: Maybe you're just stupid!

Greg Kellerman
Thursday, August 08, 2002

> after all the original post was about vacation time...

Hey yeah, about that topic. So what I'm thinking is that the reason the H1Bs are so much more productive and efficient is because they spend time with their family, get more rest, and are well-assured that they will have enough money at age 40 retirement to 'live like a Rajah'. I know I'd be a better worker if I had all that!

Regarding the political stuff, personally I am starting to see a lot of cool products come from the other side of the Atlantic and at competitive prices, all despite their being dirty commies! :)

Sarain H.
Thursday, August 08, 2002

Sarain -

Long vacations have nothing to do with H1B status. In your case, it just happened that the same guy had long vacations and he's on H1B, that's it.

Your vacations is matter of your agreement with employer and H1B is irrelevant here.

Igor Krivokon
Thursday, August 08, 2002

>>> Around here, the H1b dudes from India typically take a 2-4 or sometimes even six month vacation about once every two years where they go back home and visit <<<

So how do you find out that someone is H1B?  Is there a list or do you just ask them?

About half the people I work with are Indian or Chinese ancestery but I have no idea of the immigrant status of most of them.  The few cases I know, it's someone who is a US citizen.

A lot of them do take long vacations to visit relatives.  Maybe six weeks or so, but never knew anyone to take six months.

mackinac
Thursday, August 08, 2002

Sarian,

Long vaccations are pretty common in many countries. This is what a WSJ coulmm published today says -

***quotes***

"Uwe Lang can't say he feels burned out as he embarks on the first of two three-week vacations he's planned this year.

The 34-year-old supervisor at Eberspaecher AG, which makes car-heating systems, knocks off work each day at 3 p.m. in the course of a 35-hour work week. He worked just 12 days total in May, which had four national holidays. "

"The French hours-reduction law gave Thierry Gaymard, a manager of nine Toys "R" Us stores north of Paris, 9½ weeks of vacation, more than twice as much as he got before the law was introduced. "

***end of quotes***

Next time around, you may want to broaden your 'world' knowledge beyond that of the 'US', before passing some generalized comments on H1B.

Cheers amigos,
sold-my-soul-to-uncle-sam

sold-my-soul-to-uncle-sam
Thursday, August 08, 2002

"Your vacations is matter of your agreement with employer and H1B is irrelevant here."

Thanks Igor! I just called my boss and asked him if I could take 60 days off without pay to backpack through the Himalayas sometime during the next year.

His response: "F*ck you, Sarain."

I'm not gay so I couldn't take him up on the counter offer.

Man - the H1B's have a sweet deal!

I was thinking today we should have a totally open H1B program -- everyone who wants to can come as long as they can find a US worker who agrees to be displaced by them. The program would work like this: Joe from India approaches me and asks if he can displace me. I tell him sure and we switch places -- he comes to America and I move to India. In return for relenquishing my job, he sends me half his salary and I live like a Rajah. Sounds fair to me. Oh but wait -- India doesn't allow American immigrants. Darn! It was almost a perfect plan.

What I want to know is when do I get to stop werking these damn 72 hour weeks doing this idiotic boring childsplay and get to live like a Rajah? Everybody else is doin' it!

Sarain H.
Thursday, August 08, 2002

"Next time around, you may want to broaden your 'world' knowledge beyond that of the 'US', before passing some generalized comments on H1B."

Sole-cellar,

Dude like I know how those Europeans and Aussies live! Would love to move there but they don't accept many American immigrants. Personally I would MUCH rather take my so-called valuable expertise somewhere where I am appreciated enough to be 'permitted' the 'privledge' of having a life. Any one want to sponsor me to come work in France or Germany? I know a little French and am a fast learner!

Getting back to the good ol US of A, the only people I know taking 3 month vacations every year are H1Bs and school teachers.

As far as 'who are the H1bs', it's all listed on that site by company. Forget the link. They list the forms they file with the government and there's enough info to always figure out who's who. We know who's H1b around here.

Tally ho old chap!

Sarain H.
Thursday, August 08, 2002

Oh forgot to mention, all companies are required by federal law to make their H1b records available to the public for inspection. I tried asking here and got a bunch of BS but I have a friend working down the street who is doing some sort of legal stuff to get the info out of his employer -- he's doing law school at night and thought it would be a fun project.

Sarain H.
Thursday, August 08, 2002

"What I want to know is when do I get to stop werking these damn 72 hour weeks doing this idiotic boring childsplay and get to live like a Rajah? Everybody else is doin' it! "

As Bela would have said - When you stop whinning. :)

Get it?

Boy! is this site attracting a lot of sissies or what!

I am not Bella neither am I Joe ;-)
Friday, August 09, 2002

As a former school teacher, I'll note that teachers don't get 3 months vacation.  They get paid for 9 months in a year.  Many take part time jobs to fill the gap (although it's tough to find one that exactly fits the time off).  Others just live cheaply. 

Incidentally, during those 9 months they probably work 60 hours plus a week, and get paid a fraction of what you do.  (When I moved to the software industry, my salary literally doubled).

Enough whining, puhlease!

The voice of rationality
Friday, August 09, 2002

Hmmm the first weapon used by any Fascist (of whatever political orientation), is to be able to identify members of whatever group that they feel able to persecute.

Naturally if they have a body or skin type which is obvious its very simple.  Sarain has realised the perfect means of identifying all those H1B's of whatever appearance.

The question I have is Why?

Simon Lucy
Friday, August 09, 2002

OK Simon, I guess I'm a horrid racist!

I am probably bald and have tatoos too!

Why, on weekends I probably scurry through downtown placing 'blacks only' signs on water fountains.

Thanks for playing the race card but it doesn't change the facts that H1Bs have a sweet deal.

And of course if you want to see real racism, you'll have to go to Europe.

Sarain H.
Friday, August 09, 2002

Actually I didn't call you racist. 

I'm bald.

I live in Europe, I'd be interested to know on what basis you believe that general attitudes are worse than in the US.

And that was no race card I played.  As I don't accept the basis on which the 'races' are divided I don't acknowledge the concept.  As I was careful to say, you pointed out a method of identifying foreign workers regardless of their origin.

My question was Why.

Simon Lucy
Saturday, August 10, 2002

"As I was careful to say, you pointed out a method of identifying foreign workers regardless of their origin. My question was Why. "

Oh, well I pointed it out only in reply to macinac's question "So how do you find out that someone is H1B? Is there a list or do you just ask them?". Seemed he was skeptical that the dudes taking the long vacations were bona-fide H1Bs and I was merely doing a confirm on that.

"I'm bald."

I'm bald too but it has nothing to do with being a skinhead. Actually, my mother was vietnamese and my father black, though I was raised by a white foster family. I won't even mention my wife's background as I don't want to stir the pot unnecessarily!

Sarain H.
Saturday, August 10, 2002

"I'd be interested to know on what basis you believe that general attitudes are worse than in the US."

Got the crap beat out of me in London by some real skinheads one year with the full-blown epithets routine. If it was the US, it never would have happened since I pack heat here and people know better than to mess with me.

There's a lot of racism down in California against the Mexicans -- people I have to deal with professionally from that area sometimes really piss me off with their bullshit about wetbacks and all that crap. California was stolen from these people and now they have to put up with more sheet from the man and his legions of cable watching retardimentos. What's sickening is that the worst racists are also the biggest liberals talking like a child that these poor brown and black folk need to be saved and fed cause we can't make it on their own. Or we are called 'whiners' when we bring out the truth of abysmal working conditions by dipshits who wouldn't know a day's work if it bit them on the ass. I'll tell you my own theory -- I don't think the white people would be able to survive without the people of color since they spend their time stealing from us. Whiteys beat the shit out of each other over in Europe have to come to this continent and use their bioweapons (smallpox) against the locals all in the name of their great white god.

Anyway, everyone knows that though some people talk trash about minorities in the US, its in Europe where the presense of minority success is sufficient to start building the ovens while the populace chants and cheers.

I read the papers. I know how you people still feel about the Jews - it's there in the Guardian. I know how the frogs are about the Jews too, burning down the synagogues at night while clenching their fists and acting all surprised during the light of day. It's been a few years since anybody burned down a house of worship in this country at least, and it's always those of European decent who are behind it, ain't it? So don't give mbe none of your 'who, little us?' routine cos we're on to your Euro-Supremism bullshit.

Sarain H.
Saturday, August 10, 2002

Interesting.

Well I think you've exhibited your liberal credentials admirably.

Simon Lucy
Sunday, August 11, 2002

Hi Simon!

Liberal, really?

I guess I don't mind being called liberal but I think this is the first time I have been called that!

In the last couple of elections I voted for the Reform Party, actually.

Wondering why you thought 'liberal' ... any thing in particular?

Sarain H.
Tuesday, August 13, 2002

Irony I think.

Simon Lucy
Tuesday, August 13, 2002

>> Irony I think. <<

I wonder if he'll get it.  :-}

Nerd 01
Tuesday, August 13, 2002

Indian H1B dudes in US get vacation for 2 months every year.

But their counterparts in India (or for any other private or govt employee in India) slog round the year. Except for weekends and other national holidays.

We guys are used to working hard :)

Go India go!

copywritrix
Friday, August 16, 2002

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Monday, June 28, 2004

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