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Best programmer

I find it interesting that the audience for 'Joel on Software' is composed almost entirely of programmers, even though Joel deals with wider issues of software development.  It still seems to me that software development is still synonomous with coding, rather than developing a complete product which people will use and pay money for.

I wonder if I'm the only non-coder (or ex-very-bad coder to be more accurate) who still hangs around here?

I don't know why, but I can't shake this feeling that Bella is going to post and mock me into next week...I've developed some weird Bella insecurity thang.  How odd :0)  I'm also eagerly awaiting the post entitled 'no shit sherlock'.

Sherlock

sherlock_yoda
Monday, July 29, 2002

'no shit sherlock'

wait no more :-)

BTW: what is that non-coding soft. engg. related work u do?

Prakash S
Monday, July 29, 2002

I'm kinda sorta an interactive product designer (or interaction designer).  The software version of an Architect is closest - I design the house, others build it (lucky them).

Sherlock

sherlock_yoda
Monday, July 29, 2002

Thank you for the insult Sherlock... considering us programmers as "just coders". 

I assume you are a "senior meeting coordinator"?  Or maybe a "principal checklist checker"?

Joe AA.
Monday, July 29, 2002

Actually Joe, I think that reply says more about you than me.  I don't consider the 'building' to be just coding, anymore than building a house is just about laying bricks.

Besides, I want Bella to hurt me, not you.

Sherlock

sherlock_yoda
Monday, July 29, 2002

dude, Bella is Joe AA.

duh.

Matt H.
Monday, July 29, 2002

Gee, Matt I didn't realise....the rebuke was so mild - kindly even.  I was expecting something more apocolyptic.

I think I may have just conquered my Bella insecurity ;0)

Seriously, I didn't mean to hurt any feelings with my analogy - I have just found it to be useful when explaining my role to non-technical folk.  It was probably inappropriate for this forum :0(

I was once a software designer, and I understand all that entails (even though I was, um, poor at that particular job).

I do, however, find it funny that you mock anyone who isn't involved directly with the nuts and bolts of putting an application together.  Would you mock an architect in the same way?

Sorry for any unintended offence,
a very sorry for himself Yoda

sherlock_yoda
Monday, July 29, 2002

Dude, Joe AA and Bella are TROLLS.

This explains why you ask a straightforward question and have to end up apologizing for it.  Either that, or you get into a huge flame war where you write hundreds of lines of code, and they reply "You're WRONG, stupid" and send a reply that's hundreds of lines ...

Even better still is if they can get someone else to pick up thier side, so they can make a single post of two sentances and start and 100 KB flame-war ...

Sometimes, Bella and Joe AA are interesting because they present the opposing viewpoint.  But ignore trolls, and don't let them intimidate you. :-)

Matt H.
Monday, July 29, 2002

[I do, however, find it funny that you mock anyone who isn't involved directly with the nuts and bolts of putting an application together.]

Actually the rule is to mock everyone. Don't discriminate. It is everyone elses fault and/or problem and you are the one that will lead them to the promise land with your golden staff of development pawah. :-)


[Would you mock an architect in the same way?]

How big are we talking here? Because if he is under 6' 200 lbs. I think maybe I can take him. I might have to use my run-fu style if he is larger.

Ian Stallings
Monday, July 29, 2002

Can you kick some serious ass? if yes you're a good programmer dude.

biteme
Monday, July 29, 2002

Coders in smaller shops can rarely stay away from all those other tasks that fall on project management.  We call 'em distractors....

adam
Monday, July 29, 2002

What attractd me to Joel's site was his Dilbert-esque pragmatic comon-sense writing style.  His KISS style.  etc.  Yes, most of Joel's site it NOT about code related issues, but bigger picture management.  Hence the title "Painless Software MANAGEMENT"   

However, it's frustrated/talented programmers who can relate to this, and truly embrace it, and seek this type of clear rational thinking as a beacon to validate their soul.  I have yet to work with a software manager who TRULY understands the essense of Dilbert-moments and poor software managerment, etc.  Most have understood it, or at least acknowledge they should,  but not realized when they ARE it.  They have little motivation to come to  a site like this, b/c they don't perceive a problem rooted in the process (Often, themselves)

PS: For the last time, I AM NOT JOE AA.  I have seen Joe AA post as Bella as a joke, but it was obvious,  I don't believe I've seen deliberate attempts by Joe AA to pose as Bella But at this point, a 3rd party could be posting as both, since it keeps being brought up.    For the last time, I swear to your mother's grave,  I am not Joe AA.    In fact, I have taken note of his posts, and do detect a similar mindset, and would like to keep in touch with Joe AA privately, long after I stop visiting this site. 

Bella
Monday, July 29, 2002

Sherlock said "I do, however, find it funny that you mock anyone who isn't involved directly with the nuts and bolts of putting an application together. Would you mock an architect in the same way?"

Yes, I probably would.  Someone with a title of "architect" is not automatically entitled to instant respect.  No one and no job title is... in my book anyway.

Besides, if you are going to use that as an analogy, you might want to do a little research - countless studies have demonstrated that architect/builders generally produce both higher and more consistent quality products over architects that don't directly involved themselves in the... "nuts and bolts".

Bella... I know some third party posted as me... in "the best programmer and why" thread on July 25th.  I was both out of town and without access.

Would you mind directing me to the post where you believe I impersonated you?

Joe AA.
Tuesday, July 30, 2002


Would it really be that hard for Joel to add passwords and logins to this list?  And save the IP address, so we know who did what?

Bleh.  Now I remember why I like Richard Stallman. oops.

regards,

Matt H.
Tuesday, July 30, 2002

Can I be Joe AA? Thanks Bella.

Joe AA
Tuesday, July 30, 2002

I just saw a post answering best programmer, and 1 post said "Bella  -Joe aa"  the other said "Joe AA  -Bella"  ..Kinda funny actually.  Probably not you.

Bella
Tuesday, July 30, 2002

Who is Joe AA and Bella? can someone tell me who are these folks?

Private investigator
Wednesday, July 31, 2002

That's exactly your problem, Joe AA.  You don't believe anyone is entitled to instant respect, whereas I think the majority of us accord respect by default, until the individual in question proves themself unworthy of it.  Innocent until proven guilty.

Which is precisely why I will feel no moral remorse about calling you a grade-A, extra large asshole.

Dunno Wair
Thursday, August 01, 2002

Dunno Wair:

If you think I am an asshole, it would not be immoral to call me one.

If you want to provide instant respect to any blob of protoplasm that can walk upright without dragging its knuckles on the ground... then more power to you.  You are the only one you place at risk.

Bella:

No it wasn't me, just like it wasn't me but some coward that posted as me immediately before your last post on this thread.

Joe AA
Saturday, August 03, 2002

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