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Purchase this forum?

Does Joel sell this forum?  (Or, more precisely, the ASP source code to it?)  I want to use it as a support forum for my business.  It seems to work really well.

Trent
Thursday, August 12, 2004

I don't know, it is simplistic and very functional though.

I bet if he does sell it, he'd add some features more specific to a support forum if the money were right.

not-so-anon
Thursday, August 12, 2004

purchase?  Are you not a programmer?  It would be a trivial effort to reproduce this exact forum from scratch.

muppet
Thursday, August 12, 2004

What features do support forums have that this forum doesn't have?  (Is there such a thing as specific support forum software?)

Trent
Thursday, August 12, 2004

I am not a programmer.  I know a little VB but that is all.

Trent
Thursday, August 12, 2004

> it is simplistic

Okay, originally it may be simple, perhaps the administrative features has been kept usable and not a lot of frills was added for no good reason, I wouldn't say it's simplistic.

They have had to write logic to handle trolls, bots, racists, language astronauts ("you don't use python? you must be dumb!!"), dumb asses (me included) and spammers. This thing had to work even if the entire company was enjoying a nice italian dinner into the wee hours in Venice.

Li-fan Chen
Thursday, August 12, 2004

+++They have had to write logic to handle trolls, bots, racists, language astronauts ("you don't use python? you must be dumb!!"), dumb asses (me included) and spammers. This thing had to work even if the entire company was enjoying a nice italian dinner into the wee hours in Venice.+++


err... I haven't noticed any logic filters on this forum.

muppet
Thursday, August 12, 2004

Dave B, who was/is a regular here, reproduced this forum and had the source available at http://www.sswltd.com
But it's not available any more. You might be able to get his contact information by searching here and you can ask him for a copy.

Anon
Thursday, August 12, 2004

There's also a PHP clone at JohnsAdventures.com.

www.MarkTAW.com
Thursday, August 12, 2004

You guys can understand and even encourage a desire to clone this forum, the most stripped down and feature-bare forum on the planet, but pracitcally vomit up your spleen with derogatory comments when you're confronted with a lith forum clone.  Nice.  :)

muppet
Thursday, August 12, 2004

try web wiz forum (http://www.webwizguide.info/web_wiz_forums/default.asp), much better than joel's forum,imho.

I installed web wiz forum on my site, you can see the demo
http://www.d2ksoft.com

redguardtoo
Thursday, August 12, 2004

BTW:
web wiz forum is free

redguardtoo
Thursday, August 12, 2004

That sounds about right, muppet.

www.MarkTAW.com
Thursday, August 12, 2004

> logic filters on this forum

I bet the filters do exist, and flags message red for the moderators. Or something like that, you need the worst of the crop to float to the top somehow, otherwise how can you admin a wild forum like this?

Li-fan Chen
Thursday, August 12, 2004

The traffic here isn't so fast that it couldn't be done manually.  My forum (once upon a time) used to get hit much more heavily and I had no trouble keeping up with it with one other moderator.

muppet
Thursday, August 12, 2004

http://sourceforge.net/projects/bco/ is free and runs on apache and php, both also free.

Matt B
Thursday, August 12, 2004

Yeah Matt, looks good:

http://crewcial.org/test/

muppet
Thursday, August 12, 2004

Ok. Thanks guys.  I wonder why "Dave B" would have taken his site down?  Not enough interest?  I would think this forum would generate enough interest... IMO.  I'll take a look at the PHP version.

Trent
Thursday, August 12, 2004

John to answer your question, yes there are features you may want in forum software.

For the low price of $1,000 USD/hour I will be more than happy to not only explain all of them, but walk you step-by-step through actually coding them.

Seriously, you may want things such as a drop-down that lets people select the nature of contact. Was it a bug? A suggestion? Complaint?

Think about it in terms like this:

Six months down the road, you will want to generate a report based on the data in your forum database.

What information could you collect about each contact (thread/post) that would either help you give better support or act as a metric to measure the level of your support?

Dear John
Thursday, August 12, 2004

$1000?  pfft.. I'll do it for $750.

muppet
Thursday, August 12, 2004

3 rupees.

I code for fun (and rice) biznatch.

Dear John
Thursday, August 12, 2004

Here's a straight link to the PHP clone:

http://www.johnsadventures.com/backend/DiscussionForum/APHPDiscussionForum.html

At my request John added an archive, so now it's got something JoS doesn't even have. :)

BCO reminds me of http://phorum.org/ , which I'm using on marktaw.com

www.MarkTAW.com
Thursday, August 12, 2004

"$1000?  pfft.. I'll do it for $750."

Somehow I doubt anyone who frequents this forum will engage muppet for services at any price.

MacSqueeb
Thursday, August 12, 2004

Why the interest in this stripped down forum?

Is there something fundamentally wrong with phpBB?

http://www.phpbb.com/

Andrew
Thursday, August 12, 2004

"purchase?  Are you not a programmer?  It would be a trivial effort to reproduce this exact forum from scratch."

The above quote from muppet is ironic, considering this quote from muppet's own blog:

"well, after spending 4 years trying to develop my own open-ended CMS, I've decided that I'll never be happy with it and I'm going to try to just learn somebody else's (and hence avoid the temptation to keep 'fixing' it)."

So as we can see, even the greatest superstar perlgrammers can find reasons that justify using other people's work.  I guess the problem must be that all other programmers are morons, so then you can't use their work.  What a paradox.

How did any software of decent quality ever get made before the age of the muppet?

Nelson Muntz
Thursday, August 12, 2004

what you fail to mention is that approximately 1 week after that post, I posted again, having decided that the out-of-the-box CMS wasn't  meeting my needs at all, and took up the torch of writing my own damn system again.  Which is coming along nicely, by the way.  But way to quote outdated information without any context.  You'd go far in politics.

muppet
Thursday, August 12, 2004

and, this forum is hardly a CMS.  it's a discussion script.  Any competent programmer could duplicate it's front end exactly in less than an hour, I'd bet.

muppet
Thursday, August 12, 2004

Nelson i am glad you said something because I was just about to.

I am a bit of a programmer, and I too want to have a forum just like this one as a support forum. If Joel was sellign the code cheap I would buy a copy, or else I will have a quick squiz for a freeware version of some sort.

Being able to program (or even able to learn a particular language in order to program in it) does not necesitate a desire to actually do it.

It the grand world of developing a product (as opposed to soley programming) then is more to life then feeling like you have to program everythign yourself 'just because you can'.

Also why reinvent the wheel. what JoS has is good, has been well tested etc. In my book that makes a lot better sense then starting from scratch.

Aussie Chick
Thursday, August 12, 2004

(Yes the spelling/grammar/typo police have a warrant out for my arrest I am sure)

Aussie Chick
Thursday, August 12, 2004

err?  Learning to program does not carry as a prerequisite WANTING to program?  I bet you're just a SWELL developer, AC.... with that attitude.  Actually, you sound like nearly every CS-graduate programmer I've ever known.

Obviously there are cases where it is VERY preferable to use someone's already-built software over writing something yourself.  In the case of a VERY simple setup like this, however, why in the Hell would you shell out money for a script that you could LITERALLY write in about 45 minutes?  That's just ludicrous.

I know that many of you have some sort of hard-on for Joel, hey, he's a bright guy, but damn, this forum is not complicated.  Give it a rest.

muppet
Thursday, August 12, 2004

muppet, the OP is not a programmer and said as much. Put it to rest.

www.MarkTAW.com
Thursday, August 12, 2004

You're right.  My comments on rolling your own have about as little to do with the OP as all the comments flaming me for asking if the guy was a programmer in the first place.  Shame on me.

muppet
Thursday, August 12, 2004

Well just pay a programmer to spend a few hours at most making something similar. It's very basic features-wise (one of its strengths I reckon).

Matt
Thursday, August 12, 2004

I stop reading threads after 3 posts unless someone has something interesting to say, I really had no idea what else was being said.

It's anyone's perrogative to decide what's worth money and what isn't. If you'd rather spend the hour writing a forum than buying it, then go for it.

I just hope you don't mind when I tell you to roll your own Word Processing program. :-)

www.MarkTAW.com
Friday, August 13, 2004

contact me, I have the source for this forum, base price for 5 users is $299.

dontbestupid
Friday, August 13, 2004

>In the case of a VERY simple setup like this, however, why in the Hell would you shell out money for a script that you could LITERALLY write in about 45 minutes?

I don't know why I am bothering to say this. I appreciated a debate/discussion but am getting tired of the way a particular user (okay I am talking about muppet) always ends up name calling and being down right horrid. "I don't agree with you therefore you are a sucky old useless fart with .... " oh give me a break. It would be ignorable if he didn't hijack every thread.

Actually no I think i will stop here, I am sure most people can see the point I would make about the above comment.

Aussie Chick
Friday, August 13, 2004

Aussie Chick, you're not supposed to take muppet seriously. Flippant responses are the order of the day. Let's go hijack his thread. ;-)

www.MarkTAW.com
Friday, August 13, 2004

Mark, I actually just read his thread.

I thought to myself, this is the most pleasant version of muppet I have seen. No agressiveness or namecalling.

I did actually have the urge to say some absolute counter point, wait for muppet to disagree and call him all sorts of nasty unfounded names.

I would like to think I can behave with more maturity then that though. (But if you did it I wouls applaud very loudly!)

Aussie Chick
Friday, August 13, 2004

:D

heh. nah, we should wait a week, post a similar thread, wait for him to say something negative, and pounce.

I'm thinking of joining his forum and asking how much he would charge to sell it.

www.MarkTAW.com
Friday, August 13, 2004

It's so hard to ignore a loud-mouth person.

But I am trying. I suppose you know a discussion board is well established when it attracks its very on troll. You see heaps of them on usenet.

Aussie Chick
Friday, August 13, 2004

It takes practice, but I'm getting better at it. Just don't respond to their post, and watch as they - without anything to respond to - go away.

The problem is that in a forum of this size, someone will always respond to them.

www.MarkTAW.com
Friday, August 13, 2004

I have withfrained from biting for some time, however yesterday I reached some superficial limit.  Be rude and loud mouthed all you want. That type of trolling doesn't bother me. Disagree with me blatantly, argue with me, I will get frustrated that I can't make you see my viewpoint, but it will all be fun.

It is the name calling that disgusts me. I have just never liked an argument ended by someone being the rudest.

Aussie Chick
Friday, August 13, 2004

Remember how Joel once published a little bit about the design of this very forum?  The minimalism is designed in, and personally I think it works well.

IIRC, he deliberately didn't keep that article online for long deliberately.

I would be surprised if Joel didn't treat forum feature requests in the same way that he treats 'just one custom field please?' requests in FogBugz..

One single thing I'd like better on this forum is link parsing.  The current way is completely broken and flies in the face of the RFCs.  That isn't a feature request, it is a bug report ;-)

i like i
Friday, August 13, 2004

Trent,
Dave Behnke had created a pretty good look alike of this forum and he had version in ASP 3.0 for Access, MSSQL & MySQL and he also was working on ASP.NET for MSSQL version. They were all licensed under GPL and I have all four of them. I changed the Access to be DSN-less.

The php clone of this forum is desent but it is missing an option to email users.

All 4 zip files come to total 300K and I have nowhere to upload them.

Alex K
Friday, August 13, 2004

Send them to me, I will upload them somewhere if that is what you are wanting.

I would like to look at them.

Aussie Chick
Friday, August 13, 2004

Trent,

I have the Access and SQL Server versions of Dave Behnke's ASP_based forum clone here:

http://www.christopherhawkins.com/public/

They're great. 

WebWiz forums are also a good free solution, but slightly more complex.  If you want something you can easily pull apart to see how a forum works, download the Behnke stuff.

www.ChristopherHawkins.com
Friday, August 13, 2004

i like i,

The article is actually still around in Joel's archive: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/BuildingCommunitieswithSo.html

John Topley (www.johntopley.com)
Friday, August 13, 2004

See.. I don't hijack threads, I express an opinion just like everyone else does.  Then, a dozen people or so will start whining and carrying on about how I shouldn't express opinions because mine aren't the same as theirs and I don't drink my tea off a doilie like they do.  So then I respond to some of the criticism in a defense of my equal right to have an opinion, which maybe I shouldn't do, but "heh heh shut up muppet you turd, let the adults talk" is a bit disrespectful, and ought get my dander up a tad, don't you think?

It's not me that elevates the "muppet factor" of any given thread to 100%, it's all the whiners who can't handle a frankly stated viewpoint.

muppet
Friday, August 13, 2004

I don't have problems with frankly stated viewpoints.

Surely you realize the "blame" if you want to place it rests neither with you or the rest of the world. You have to share the blame equally.

50% you
50% the rest of the world

Don't you think if enough people react to you in a certain way, there must be something about you that causes them to react that way? And don't say it's just a "frankly stated viewpoint." Do you really think the chicken came before the egg? If there wasn't a muppet, there wouldn't be muppet haters.

(just teasing you).

www.MarkTAW.com
Friday, August 13, 2004

MarkTAW: "Just don't respond to their post, and watch as they - without anything to respond to - go away."


If there wasn't a response, there wouldn't be counter responses.

Andrew
Friday, August 13, 2004

This forum sucks!  I mean the workings of it. The content is great though.

grunt
Friday, August 13, 2004

"err... I haven't noticed any logic filters on this forum."

Too. Much. Irony.

James T. Kirk
Friday, August 13, 2004

I have to agree with Muppet on this one.  If you read his first six posts here, they are pretty decent.  Then he gets flamed, and takes the ship down with him.  Muppet is just the kind of guy that comes back with a sledge hammer when he is pushed.  So stop pushing him and he will stop hitting you with those sledge hammers.

Steamrolla
Friday, August 13, 2004

++This forum sucks!  I mean the workings of it. The content is great though. ++

i disagree.  it works really well for its context.

Kenny
Friday, August 13, 2004

"So stop pushing him and he will stop hitting you with those sledge hammers. "

Do we care?

Just me (Sir to you)
Friday, August 13, 2004

Apparently enough people care to hijack every thread that I care to post in.

muppet
Friday, August 13, 2004

Fuck Cunt Sex Anal

Just a test ...

This board aint spam free :)

I sell my IRC Bot for $50 anyone interested ?

RasterBlaster
Friday, August 13, 2004

Oh come on, muppet. Your inflammatory rhetoric serves to make you the center of (negative) attention.  I have a four year old. I've seen this sort of thing a few times.

Rob VH
Friday, August 13, 2004

Inflammatory rhetoric?  I give an opinion.  People tend not to even challenge my opinion so much as my right to even have one, because I'm "inflammatory", by which they mean I think differently than they do and I don't wrap it up nice with a bow for them.  Get real.

muppet
Friday, August 13, 2004

>>> Inflammatory rhetoric?  I give an opinion.  People tend not to even challenge my opinion so much as my right to even have one, because I'm "inflammatory", by which they mean I think differently than they do and I don't wrap it up nice with a bow for them.  Get real.

That's such a crock...

Go have another look at the thread discussing file formats for an essay contest.

You opined that content and composition were inextricably linked.  Then when people disagreed and pointed out that aren't necessarily linked, you responded with "old farts can't accept..."

No one challenged your right to your opinion, but for whatever reason you aren't capable of accepting other opinions.  You should take your own advice and "learn the capacity to go against your programming."

Like Aussie Chick I know I should just ignore you, if not all the time, at least when you're being, well, muppettish.  After this post, I will.

Ward
Friday, August 13, 2004

"It's not me that elevates the "muppet factor" of any given thread to 100%, it's all the whiners who can't handle a frankly stated viewpoint."

Anyone else amused that even muppet accepts that "muppet factor" is an appropriate term for bringing a thread down in flames?

Reminds me of an episode of the American TV show Cheers, where they race out of the bar after someone shouts "last one out's a Clavin!"  And Cliff Clavin shouts "I'm not gonna be the Clavin this time!"

Jim Rankin
Friday, August 13, 2004

I was referring to the down-in-flames phenomenon using your lexicon so as to be properly understood.  Sort of like talking to tribesmen with plates in their mouths, you know.

muppet
Friday, August 13, 2004

Muppet, you're not the only person on this forum who has unconventional and often very intelligent opinions, and you're not the only person who states them forthrightly. Before you came along, neither of those attributes ever created anything like a "muppet factor". Don't you wonder whether perhaps you add some special third ingredient that the hundreds of other intelligent posters on this forum do not?

The difference as I see it is that most other people, when challenged, are willing to continue the conversation civilly and if they can't reach agreement, respectfully disagree without it affecting future conversations. Also, they are able to make direct and honest comments without feeling the need to include point-scoring rhetoric.

I have found some of your postings to be quite insightful, more so than average. However in order to get to your message often I've had to ignore the way you get your message across. Why do you feel it necessary to be so inflammatory and abusive? Do you think for some reason it helps? Isn't it clear by now that it's not helping?

Aussie Bloke
Saturday, August 14, 2004

If I've been inflammatory it has been in response to countless folks telling me not to share my opinion because they don't like it.  If you think I ought to shut up when told, then I'm sorry, I can't agree with you.

muppet
Saturday, August 14, 2004

Well said Aussie Bloke you have summed it exactly.

Lots of people on this forum disagree and have have debates. Muppet is not being torn down for doing this. He is being torn down for his need to be mean and call people names. That is what annoys everybody.

Aussie Chick
Saturday, August 14, 2004

You don't want this forum.

Too many trolls in it.

Anon
Monday, August 16, 2004

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