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Looks like Eric Sink agrees with you..

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnsoftware/html/software02242004.asp

in regard to not moving to .Net just yet for end-user apps. He didn't mention the linker idea though...

Mark

Mark
Wednesday, February 25, 2004

Eric Sink must be very smart ;-)

Just kidding. Even if he didn't agree with me I would think he's very smart, and one of the most ethical people I've ever met in this industry. I love his new MSDN column.

Joel Spolsky
Fog Creek Software
Wednesday, February 25, 2004

We (programmers and managers) racked our brains for a good while trying to make a decision about whether to start up coding C# for new desktop apps.  I can see that Eric's team went through similar discussions.

Similarly, we came to the conclusion that our users were not normal people.  Since we deal in statistical research, our users are more concerned with functionality and getting the latest methods fast, and not so much about platform.  Heck, we still ship DOS products.  And I'm talking 16-bit, 640K ones.

So we chose C#.  However, we took this approach:  We rolled out a small app that would not be painful to us if we had to re-write it.  In fact, we only did the UI in C#; the underlying structure is C++.  We are currently evaluating the customer response.  So far we have had no complaints, even when customer's have done a download of the software and it tells them they need to download the .NET Framework too.

If all continues to go well, we will have more discussion on doing more .NET apps.

Walt
Wednesday, February 25, 2004

Man, you guys are starting to REALLY convince me to try out C#...

I gave up C/C++ a while ago because it is just a boring pain in the ass.  It used to be a very fun pain in the ass, but after doing the same thing for the dozen-th time, it gets tiring.

It is funny though -- I still LOVE scripting.  Probably the whole deal of not having to deal with the same allocation issues again and again...

Now I'm hearing from you guys that C# is VERY fun... I just have to give it a shot.

T.J.
Wednesday, February 25, 2004

TJ,

I am not that good at UI development, but for the forementioned project, I wrote the C# UI, which was a very basic dialog with some tabs, some menus, settings, and finally it launches a statistical calculation in another app.

It was very polished, had check for newer versions, etc. and I wrote it in 24 man hours (3 days x 8 hours).  For me, writing a production level UI in that time is good.

Walt
Wednesday, February 25, 2004

I've used C# and love it.  The language is nice, but it's the framework that is truly amazing.  I can see me using it for server work, but we can't port our desktop app until the framework becomes as prevalent as '98 and people's machines are able to handle the memory requirements.  3 or 4 years?  We have a lot of users that are still running '98 on pentium 233s.  I agree with Joel, I wish we had something like py2exe.  (((please, no remotesoft/linker url)))

Dan Brown
Wednesday, February 25, 2004

Well, we started requiring the .NET framework in V3.4 of our product and we'll be seriously pushing the limits of the framework in V3.5.  Basically we're using C#, the .NET Framework, and web services as the basis for an centralized client/server home entertainment solution.  I'll let you know how it goes. =)

My personal opinion so far is that any inconvenience to your customer base by requiring the extra megs is more than made up for by the quality of the code you are capable of producing.  Hence the amount of time that you save can be directly allocated to improving other portions of the application.  In theory you can reach some sort of quality plateau with either C++ or C#.  But unless you are doing something rather low risk or you have nearly unlimited resources to throw at hitting the high percentiles of quality, you'll going to be hurt if you don't use C#.  I don't think small ISV's can afford the productivity loss.

Richard Kuo
Thursday, February 26, 2004

The .Net Framework API is OK, but it would be MUCH more usable if they didn't overload every stupid function 64 trillion times.

Sometimes it seems that the team just couldn't decide whether you should pass a rectangle or four points, and if the latter, whether the type is float or int. So they created a dozen functions covering every possible case.

foo
Thursday, February 26, 2004

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