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Feedback on CD 2.0.15

These are points that I've noticed as a new CD user, trying to build a website in it :-)  I've no doubt some will be fixed before the final release, but I wanted to list them just in case.


CD is missing a way of inserting headings (eg h1, h2...).  Let's try and get people to write structured XHTML, even if we can't enforce it.  All my sites are designed to be font-tagless etc, so the built in editor is somewhat lacking in this respect.

I'd like to be able to get buttons to apply CSS classes (that I've predefined) to the selection rather than adding font tags or other nasties.  This will also help the design to stay more constant throughout the site, as it restricts the changes that the maintainer can make.  I'd also like to be able to remove the buttons that add font tags etc from the toolbar.

The headline field (on the properties tab), which is also used as the page title, should not retain any formatting information.  Otherwise the page title looks very odd!

I'd like to have the option of losing all formatting by default when pasting from a Word document, as this again will help the site to have a consistant look.

That's all so far.  CD seems to be a great product for the majority of small sites, but for those of us who wish to code clean XHTML+CSS it does lack some features

Peter
Friday, August 08, 2003

As one of the first CD users I'll second that.

Jorgen Brenting
Friday, August 08, 2003

After recently publishing http://www.henko.net which validates as XHTML 1.1 Strict I couldn't agree more.

I can live with the fact that CD doesn't enforce correct XHTML, but it chould certainly encourage it.

Henrik Jernevad
Friday, August 08, 2003

It's not the default, but Edit, Paste Without Formatting will let you drop in stuff cut from Word without any of the HTML formatting.

Personally, I think CD has gone far enough towards XHTML. I can't be the only user out here who doesn't give a fig for XHTML, is perfectly happy with font tags, and thinks CSS is an enormous waste of time. We're just not as vocal as the proponents of the well-formed Web.

Mike Gunderloy
Friday, August 08, 2003

My CityDesk sites are all XHTML 1.0 transitional compliant thanks to CityDesk 2 and it requires exactly zero effort to keep them that way. What's wrong with that? :)

John C
Friday, August 08, 2003

John C.: I expect you know enough XHTML to be able to add any classes/headings that you want to your site.  The secretary who has to maintain my site doesn't know what XHTML (or HTML) is :-)

Peter
Friday, August 08, 2003

True Peter.  But I think a secretary, or any 'normal' person could select a headline of text and then click h1, h2, etc. button along the top. 

Taking the next step, to provide an 'apply class' button and be able to select from a list of classes would be a wonderful addition for the more hardcore developer.

Joel Goldstick
Friday, August 08, 2003

I've wavered from wanting more user formatting to wanting less. My experience with "contributors" is that there is no limit to the inconsistency they can add to a web page with easy formatting functions. Just pasting from MS Word can be horrible.

tk
Friday, August 08, 2003

Joel Goldstick you said: "Taking the next step, to provide an 'apply class' button and be able to select from a list of classes would be a wonderful addition for the more hardcore developer."

Yes, I absolutely agree!

David Mozer
Friday, August 08, 2003

Thanks!  I think I agree with Terry too!  Maybe something to only show in developer mode

Joel Goldstick
Friday, August 08, 2003

I'm with David and Joel on this one. a button for selecting classes would be great

john doe
Friday, August 08, 2003

Joel wrote:
"But I think a secretary, or any 'normal' person could select a headline of text and then click h1, h2, etc. button along the top. "

Yes, which is why I am asking for this feature.  Or did I miss the point you were trying to make?

Peter
Friday, August 08, 2003

You know, I've read a lot of suggestions like the one here that one should be able to select classes from a drop-down menu, almost like MS Word stylesheets, and have the class applied to the selected text.

But I was thinking about it, and it is not at all clear how you would incorporate the feauture into CityDesk in a manner that makes sense. For example, how does CityDesk know how to style text labeled with a certain class, for purposes of WYSIWYG editing? How does it know the relevant stylesheet?

You could define a default stylesheet, editable in a CityDesk control window, through standard GUI widgets. But then, how is the sheet linked into the articles? Where does it live, in its own file or in the header of every doc ... ? What if you want to extend the master sheet beyond the options in the GUI, how do you do that?

You could also just give up on WYSIWYG CSS formatting and have the drop down simply label the selected text with the class name. But then how do you show the user the text has been successfully labelled?

Could someone explain how the class menu idea will work in practice? Seems pretty tricky to me.

R Tate
Friday, August 08, 2003

The CSS file is referenced in the head of a template:
<head>
...
<link rel=stylesheet href="PTMFOG0000000025.css" type="text/css">
</head>

The article is linked to a template. Depending on the template, CD parses the relavent CSS file and loads the settings and applies them to the WYSIWYG editor. Changing the template (providing different CSS is used) changes the menu items and formatting.

but then there's a good chance I'm missing something here :)

Dave
Saturday, August 09, 2003

Using the 80/20 rule, Dave's sugestion copes with most of what you need.


Robert

Robert Cowham
Saturday, August 09, 2003

Hmmm. A special CSS section for any given template... that's automatically brought in in WYSIWYG view.

www.marktaw.com
Saturday, August 09, 2003

Mark, you sound doubtful :)

Why would it be less feasable than changing the underlying template for a MS-Word doc? It 'may' even be simpler. I don't think it'd be that hard at all - a challenge, for sure, but this is Fog Creek we're talking about here. I’d think the most difficult part would be undefined text, which would become <p>…</p> until you defined it otherwise.

Dave
Saturday, August 09, 2003

> A special CSS section for any given template...

CD would stay as is unless a CSS is specified in the template being used by the topic. Use the same CSS for all topics - use none if prefer. If CD find's one it uses it.

Dave
Saturday, August 09, 2003

Dave, I like to develop my templates with CSS in the page rather than in an attached file, it just makes it easier.

What I was saying that there could be a special section in each template for CSS and maybe JavaScript that gets pulled in to the article body when it's in WYSIWYG mode. Rather than asking CityDesk to parse it.... Maybe delimited but some special code that says "start pulling this in" "stop bringing this in."

www.marktaw.com
Saturday, August 09, 2003

Got it, thanks for explaining.

CD3 is going to be a very interesting event. They've got a ton of great ideas from a number of very talented people (all for free too) it'll be interesting to see what they do with it.

Hehe, they should post the office wish list white-board to the site weekly. We can take bets on what features make it/get cut.

Dave
Saturday, August 09, 2003

Dave - CD3 is probably going to surprise you.

www.marktaw.com
Sunday, August 10, 2003

I'm looking forward to it Mark.

Dave
Sunday, August 10, 2003

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