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SP2 released today!

We fixed some minor, yet potentially painful, bugs in SP2.

Download instructions are at:
http://www.fogcreek.com/CityDesk/updates/cityDesk-1.0.29.html

CityDesk Service Pack 2 (SP2) is a free, interim release to fix bugs.

Bug Fixes

* For sites that are published using FTP, when CityDesk had trouble deleting a file on the server or copying a file to the server, it would give up and stop publishing. Now CityDesk simply notifies you of the error but keeps publishing the other files.
* When you published a site containing certain types of CityScript errors, CityDesk would hang. This has been fixed.

Michael Pryor
Thursday, August 08, 2002

THANKS!

Good luck with the release cycle of the next version of Citydesk ;-)

Adriaan van den Brand
Friday, August 09, 2002

Mixed emotions, here.  I suspect this Service Patch is a special one-time branch from the main trunk of development.  So the good news is:  FogCreek does care enough to plug a couple of showstoppers for us while we wait for the next major revision.  More good news is that the next major release is extensive enough that it probably requires significant documentation and thorough testing.  Bad news is that it’s far enough out, even at this date, that FogCreek *finally* decided that this *tiny* SP2 warranted its own build and release.  (I am glad they made the realization, though.)

I think many who read this board have gotten used to CityDesk’s shortcomings, and have adapted their work styles to accommodate them.  Especially if their sites don’t require template editing anymore.  (Avoid switching views?  Do your content creation in another application?  Don’t trust undo?  Have a 4-step procedure for updating images?)  Don’t forget how much CityDesk drove you nuts the first time it didn’t do what you wanted, because new first time users are still going through that.  The missing features in CityDesk are almost as sorely missed as the bugs are painfully tolerated.

David Blume
Friday, August 09, 2002

Ok, while I'm glad you've fixed some bugs in the new SP2, I'm disappointed by how few problems have been solved.  what about all the other bugs?  What about the crash when I change the properties for graphics on my home page?  What about some improvement in usability, particularly the poor editing of the Extras fields. 

I find it frustrating that I've registered, I've promoted the product to others and yet it routinely craps out.  I've reported the bugs numerous times and have never had any response.  Hey, I even sent $80 worth of Valley of the Geeks paraphernelia because I was so happy with CityDesk 1.0.  So please give us some guidance here.  Are you planning on fixing the other bugs or what? 

Thanks in advance
--Zack

Zack
Sunday, August 18, 2002

I understand that it's frustrating to wait for 2.0 but bear with us, we can't wait until it's done, either. We're pedaling as fast as we can.

Joel Spolsky
Sunday, August 18, 2002

Joel,
to be clear, I think CityDesk is a great product.  It's made many things possible, but...

I'm sure many of us "early adopters" would appreciate some indication as to what the plans are for correcting bugs and major shortcomings of the product.  If you're pedaling hard, that's great.  But what I want to know is, where are you pedalling to and what are the stops along the way.  I'm not asking for top secret information and I recognize there is a certain amount of unknown in developing software.  But at least tell us what we can expect in terms of bug fixes and shortcomings.  If you tell us there's no more patches until 2.0 comes out, at least I know what the plan is.

While I save many hours using Citydesk, I also find myself repeating entirely mechanical operations every time I update my home page.  In otherwords, it could be much more productive if you improved some areas.

We're all rooting for you, but we'd still like to know the game plan.
--Zack

Zack
Sunday, August 18, 2002

I agree with Zack. Next time please consider making more incremental releases towards a major version. I understand that multi-lingual support is one of the major enhancements. I like this too. However for most people it is less relevent than the day-to-day shortcomings (which will hopefully be solved in 2.0).

I like the joel-on-software idea of releases http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/PickingShipDate.html ; unfortunately I can't recognize this in the Citydesk releases.

Adriaan van den Brand
Monday, August 19, 2002

My personal philosophy is that I think it's kind of slimy when software companies blab about all kinds of cool features that they are not actually shipping, in hopes of selling an inadequate product today and then capturing the revenue again as an upgrade in the future. Therefore I try very, very hard not to talk about future features that we're working on. I want people to evaluate CityDesk for what we have today and decide if it meets their needs; if it doesn't, I'd rather take the long-term approach rather than selling vaporware. Besides, I'd rather defend myself from complaints about "when is the next version, already" than defend myself from complains like "you've been promising X for a year now!"

We do get an incredible amount of feedback on CityDesk from all sources, and believe me, we take it into account. We currently have literally hundreds of feature requests, bug reports, etc. in our database which we constantly reprioritize.

One of the reason we haven't stopped to fix some of the current annoyances is that they may be bugs in parts of the code that will not even exist in the next major release. (Some of the undo problems are in this category). We could spend a few weeks making Undo work perfectly in the current release, but that would just delay version 2.0 by that many weeks, and in 2.0 we're using a new HTML editing control (MSHTML instead of DHTMLed) anyway which doesn't have any of the Undo problems, so in the short term this would be nice but in the long term it delays shipping what we consider to be far more important improvements.

Joel Spolsky
Monday, August 19, 2002

Hello Joel & Michael-

I love CityDesk, own the professional version, follow this forum and subscribe to the RSS feeds for Joel on Software and the CityDesk News site - so I know SP2 was released.

Was an email notice of SP2 sent?  It might alert those users who are less fanatical.

BTW, I'm reading through Joel's recommended book list and enjoying them tremendously.

Guy Bjerke
Tuesday, August 20, 2002

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