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Joel says "No money in CityDesk..."

http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2004/12/09/spolsky/print.html

Bryan
Thursday, December 09, 2004

He said something like it did okay, but it wasn't on fire and that he didn't think there was any money in blogging tools.

True, but I think of CityDesk as a CMS not a blogging tool, though it can do that.

concerned
Thursday, December 09, 2004

"We produced CityDesk, which did OK, nothing to laugh at, but it wasn't a megahit, it wasn't really on fire. It had some design decisions which I wouldn't have made today, necessarily, and I still feel like there isn't a heck of a lot of money to be made from blogging tools, basically."

I thought the plan was to sneak CityDesk 1.x & 2.x out into the world, let the early-adopters buy it, then use the feedback from them to produce 3.0, which would get the big marketing push.

Plans change, I suppose.

drawoC suomynonA
Thursday, December 09, 2004

Wow, now that's a surprise... NOT! Could it be because he so effectively killed it off himself? Absolute radio silence. No support, no bugfixes, let alone new versions...
Yuh wanna buy CD? Thanks for the bucks, there ya go and good luck, 'cause yer on yer own now..., ummm I mean check out the forum, frequented by our group of loyal zealous fanatic CD believers against all odds, ummm I mean Citydesk experts.
---
Time to develop your Access script that will export your CD efforts into something that can be -hopefully without too much pain- be imported into Dreamweaver (pick your choice from the alternatives)


Rogn.
http://www.l4a.info

Rognvaldr
Thursday, December 09, 2004

According to one of Joel's articles, no service should "lock" the customer in.  In other words, CityDesk should have an exporting feature.

I hate to ask, but I want to know:  What is the next best alternative?

Don't get my wrong.  I like CityDesk, a lot.  It is an excellent tool.

Matthew Doucette
Thursday, December 09, 2004

Saying that FogBugz excels from a usability point of view makes me wonder...the UI is a joke and it must be really hard to setup (being not entirely web-based but requiring OS-specific command-line tools to operate). No wonder they claim to be making their money on the support contracts. If that is the future of CD3, a crappy web-based UI combined with lots of hassle to install and operate, than I must live on another planet. CityDesk is exactly the opposite IMHO. Clean UI, simple operation, simple install.

ad
Thursday, December 09, 2004

Matthew,

CD does have an 'export' function. It's called 'Publish'. It exports the pages to a widely used format: HTML.

:-)

Rogn.
http://www.l4a.info

Rognvaldr
Friday, December 10, 2004

Told ya it jumped the shark.

Bob Bloom
Friday, December 10, 2004

I'm not mad... just disappointed.

_
Saturday, December 11, 2004

Or Is it his strategic decision to say that there is not much money to be made in the City Desk Market, to fence off anyone from developing competing product? 

Unlike Fog Buz, there aren't many substitutable products for City Desk.  Hence, he wants to make sure he stays under the radar while he is secretly developing new and significantly improved CD.

RM
Saturday, December 11, 2004

man! you guys are brutal...

john cesta
Sunday, December 12, 2004

RM, under the radar is right. I hope CD has future and I remain optimistic.

What Fog has that its competitors don’t is FogBugz, a web based CMS/Collaboration system, as well as CityDesk and their forum software. I think they have technology that can cross over from one product to another. They’ve done this already by incorporating their forum in to FogBugz.

Who knows? Maybe CityDesk will get a boost from Fogbugz technology that will make it more marketable.

tk
Sunday, December 12, 2004

Fog Desk?

City Bugz?

Fog City?

Desk Bugz...

_
Sunday, December 12, 2004

Here's my own brain damaged unlikely speculation :

if they don't disclose anything about the future of CD, it's because they've made a joint venture with one of the big 3 (MS, Macromedia, Adobe) to integrate their desktop CMS technology into frontweaver mx or dreampage 2005.

and they have a non disclosure agreement until the final release. So they shut down...

ah, it doesn't explain why the link to the documentation (1.0 instead of 2.0) fro this forum is always not fixed... one of these little details...

Lt Columbo
Monday, December 13, 2004

It was about time someone said that. It is by far the most reasonable speculation.

1. Desktop cms is a great feature, as we all experience, filling the gap between no cms and more complicated server side cms. It is built upon a standard MS office application. It is very useful for small businesses. How could it be possible that Microsoft would *not* be interested?

2. Macromedia has already something smelling like cms, albeit with very little management, but at least allowing distributed management. Microsoft has no product in this area of the market, but it owns a big part of this same area.

3. I am not sure if FC would be involved in the development or selling rights - unless they have patented the combination of client side cms in combination with using MS Access (if that is possible). 

4. Nondisclosure is probable if FC is involved in the new product, but not necessary if there is no FC involvement. In that case it wouldn't be clever to speak about it, would it?

5. If FC is not involved, Joel would have heard of it anyway, because he has big ears that reach into Redmond (or is it Seattle, nowadays?).

6. What's more, the famous can-do-everything but for precisely that reason also a bit difficult to learn other desktop cms application under construction has long time shown no forum activity at its website - one month the date of the last forum contribution was november 4, since a few days there are some messages announcing a new website. Might they have heard something too?

7. Is this good news or bad news for existing CityDesk users. Definitely good news! Because:
- since both applications use the same database, there is no data lock-in. (there never was any real lock-in anyway). Data can be easily migrated to the new platform.
- as I have experienced, client side cms is really a concept, you have to use it to learn what to do and what not to do with it. So we are ahead of others.
- if there is any involvement of FC, migration tools are guaranteed.
- development will be at a pace as never before.

My conclusion was to keep investing time and money in CityDesk and f.e. the extensions or wizards of Telepark (that are very good).

Then of course, this is all mere speculation.







Ruud van Soest
Monday, December 13, 2004

Rognvaldr,

Very true! :)

My (intended) point about an exporting feature is only valid with the existance of other popular CMS programs (for CityDesk to import to).  And I have no idea about other CMS programs...

Matthew Doucette
Monday, December 13, 2004

Matthew,

As was mentioned in another thread, you could give Orb Spinner a try.

Rogn.
http://www.l4a.info

Rognvaldr
Tuesday, December 14, 2004

OrbSpinner does look nice. What's missing is the ability to post to the file system. I don't want to set up an FTP server just to post to my local staging area, where I review stuff before it gets posted.

I do like it's interface, however. in particular, the Save button up on the left is the normal button, in it's normal location for a windows system.  I save a lot.  On menu-intensive products I use Ctrl-S, but when a toolbar has a large save button, I often use that. I must have hit "save and close" 10 times before I finally taught myself to ignore that button!

Eruc Armstrong
Thursday, December 16, 2004

Eric,

It does look nice, I agree. There is some stuff missing tho, before I can really use it. Folders for one.

Rogn.
http://l4a.info

Rognvaldr
Thursday, December 16, 2004

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