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What does it mean ?

Just read this sentence on JOS home page:

"The whole company (and four outside consultants, phew) has been concentrating on trying to get FogBugz 4.0 out the door. "

Nobody concentrates on Citydesk V3 ?

Brandt
Thursday, October 21, 2004

Well,

The "whole company" has been working on getting FogBugz4.0 out the door.

Joel just finished working on one book and is now "...editing a new book..."

Sure wish he was finishing up on CityDesk 3.x or drop in and say hi and let us know the product was being actively developed.

I've said this before, but visit the FogBugz forum and notice how many times the FogCreek Software gang (Joel, Michael Pryor, etc.) post there compared to here and their priorities should be clear.

David Burch
Thursday, October 21, 2004

Also,

FogCreek ships bug-fix releases for FogBugz (like Version 3.1.9).  So far, they have only shipped major releases of CityDesk (and CityDesk is two major releases behind FogBugz).

David Burch
Thursday, October 21, 2004

The Bugz folks complain as we do:

http://discuss.fogcreek.com/FogBUGZ/default.asp?cmd=show&ixPost=4535&ixReplies=11

They are probably horrified that Joel been working on books and enhancing CityDesk when there are so many bugs in Bugz. They are "amused" that they first they knew about it was is Joel's article.

They are compaining that he's using outside contractors and thus not following the Fog philosophy.

tk
Thursday, October 21, 2004



...we all complain about something or other...don't we?

John

john cesta
Thursday, October 21, 2004

It probably means exactly what it says :-)

FogBugz: "If all goes well we'll be pushing out the first beta in a couple of weeks." in JOS.

So, CD3 including local language versions is a 2005 thing, I guess. Pity they are probably stuck between FB and CD3 (a new code base?) and don't have time for an incremental update of CD2 / VB6 edition...e.g. Copy+Paste w/o Formatting from Word not adding extra <p>, Preview speed on large cty's, turning-off HTML for article fields (template checkbox) and better recovery when cty's are on "instable" network drives.

Patrick Thomas
http://www.telepark.de

PS: Yep, we happily announce things :-) New CityDesk + Wizards site will be online "soon" and will feature some ready-made PHP modules for integration into CityDesk. Now we better hurry...

Patrick Thomas
Friday, October 22, 2004

Re: "ready-made PHP modules for integration into CityDesk"

Does that mean that citydesk could use data from f.e. a MySQL database?

Ruud van Soest
Sunday, October 24, 2004

RE: incremental update of CD2

What I really need is a way to enter access key code into the html without having to edit the html. And also not having it removed when saved afterwards in Normal View.

We develop location based services (CityDesk is imo for a number of reasons excellent for lbs) and access keys are the way to handle small mobiles efficiently.

At the moment it is not really a problem for us, but if we want to sell a CD system for lbs, it is a bit of an akward story to tell your customer.

Ruud van Soest
Sunday, October 24, 2004

You could ask the user to put the access key into a variable or into an article and use an include.

tk
Sunday, October 24, 2004


Thanks Terry, but I'm afraid that won't work. Take this for example:

{$ .key8 $} <a accesskey="8" href="PTMFOG0000000164">Where am I?</a>

The Insert Link option in Normal view generates code like this:

<a href="PTMFOG0000000164">Where am I?</a>

Then the accesskey code accesskey="8" must be inserted BETWEEN the 'a' and the 'href' part of the command.

If you don't generatie the link code first, there will be no 'a' and 'href' between which you can insert the accesskey code.

So I don't see how a variable or an include would help.

Ruud van Soest
Sunday, October 24, 2004

I'm so confused (a pretty common thing for me) and I don't know what an access key is.

You need to do this in the HTML? I presume that PTMFOG0000000164 is always the linked-to page.

<a accesskey="8" href="PTMFOG0000000164">Where am I?</a>

Could you:

<a accesskey="($.cityVaribleAccessKey$}" href="PTMFOG0000000164">Where am I?</a>

tk
Sunday, October 24, 2004

Yes, you could do that, but only from within html, as far as I can see. There is no way to break into the a... href statement from Normal view. Having to do coding in html is not a selling point.

Ruud van Soest
Sunday, October 24, 2004

Great post!

PHP + MySQL:
-----------------
php & mysql are typically implemented on the server. Citydesk is client side with outputted html ftp'd to the webserver. Do you intend to implement php/mysql client side or server side? And if server side, to confirm, you do intend to keep php code intact through the CD processing/ftp for rendering on the webserver?

FogBugz Post:
-----------------
Amused to see that there are "just 6" complainers there too! Interesting to see a 3 paragraph reply from FC. Obviously, FogBugz is the money-maker and FC has to broker the conflict between their development/customer relations policy and customer expectations (did I say that right?). I don't think CD is such a money-maker for them.

Also:
-----
FC uses contractors? I'd not believe that after reading Joel's articles on how they hire only the cream of the crop. Well, maybe they do! After all, they are offering summer internships (see home page).  My cynical reaction: lower labour costs with possible tax incentives (well, in Canada there are incentives...).

CD/FC? Like Dirty Harry sez: A Software's Gotta Know His Limitations...

Great post!

Bob Bloom
Sunday, October 24, 2004

Bob,

>  I don't think CD is such a money-maker for them.

Probably a long-standing oversight (perhaps) and certainly only an observation on my behalf (I really could give a rats arse) but in the footer on every JOS page there's an advertisement for FB ... not a whisper about CD.

CD is a tool they built for internal use that keeps coffee in the pot the and pop machines full ~ it may pay part of the intern "stipend" ... who knows. It keeps beer and pepperoni in my fridge and that's good enough for me :)

PNII
Sunday, October 24, 2004

> And if server side,

Yes.

> to confirm, you do intend to keep php code intact
> through the CD processing/ftp for rendering on the
> webserver?

Yes. Nothing "spectacular" technically, some basic PHP modules (FC-type Forum, Guestbook, Server-based newsletter management for text+HTML emails..) and --especially-- simple documentation(!) on how to use them with CityDesk for the layman/woman. There are free PHP scripts which can do the same and offer another zillion configuration parameters to get one confused. We are aiming at: (1) very simple configuration options and (2) easy step-by-step documentation on how to embed those within your CityDesk project.

Patrick Thomas
http://www.telepark.de

Patrick Thomas
Monday, October 25, 2004

> Does that mean that citydesk could use data from
> f.e. a MySQL database?

Well, not from the Desktop but we are using a MySQL database for our upcoming new CityDesk site to manage product data.

All the PHP DB access code is managed within the CityDesk cty, which is very convenient. Actually we find that CD + PHP make a great match, best of both worlds really. CD gives us easy file, folder and FTP management + variables and CityScript to keep the PHP code flexible and organized.

BTW, the first batch of PHP modules for CityDesk will all be file-based so you won't need a MySQL database either (nor will you have to configure/setup one).

Patrick Thomas
http://www.telepark.de

Patrick Thomas
Monday, October 25, 2004

Well, isn't that nice. Static data from internal and external desktop databases, dynamic data from external microsoft and other online databases, user friendly front-ends... Not bad!

Ruud van Soest
Monday, October 25, 2004

But remember... it's not CD in any way that is querying the external database. It's the PHP code that does it all. (In my case, it's still DbScript with Access on my client PC).

Remember too that Patrick says that PHP will be intact during the CD FTP (Publishing) process (which is obvious). However, when you browse your html page on the webserver, you won't see PHP because the server processed the PHP coding and "served" the post-PHP-processed stuff to the browser.

It's interesting!

Patrick: Do you have CD publish to hidden subdirs on the server?  -- eg, global, inc files...

Interesting!

Bob Bloom
Tuesday, October 26, 2004

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