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more on HTML DbScript version 1.5

Just to let you know... I'm still working the kinks out of version 1.5 with Lou. This version creates dynamically created html pages (not articles) from (among other db's) Access.

Louis Franco is from http://www.greenwave-solutions.com.

My site is http://www.beitrayim.org. It is a non-profit site, and I'm the volunteer web guy.

I've successfully migrated all my content to an Access mdb file. Events, newsletter & bulletin articles, recipes, etc are all in Access.

Observations:
* HTML created in Word makes my life harder. I spend oodles of time creating non-styles, non-span plain-as-can-be html out of Word created html files.
* Saving html in Word using HTML Cleaner v2 doesn't help a whole lot
* I end up copying to notepad, then to FrontPage, and redoing the html ;-(

* I don't use CityDesk to create content, so I don't worry about the damage the CD wsiwyg editor does to my html. On the other hand, the wsiwyg editor is the default editing viewer which is a pain
* I spend 100% of my CD editing time in the html window, tweaking the html code, and the SQL SELECT statements that HTML DbSCRIPT passes through to Access
* I use CityDesk as "middleware", which I think is the absolute essence of the product anyways.

* my old CTY file was about 6Mb. Now, it's 3Mb, and it's rate of growth is a fraction of what it used to be. It'll take a while to get to 6Mb again.
* my MDB file is 2.3Mb, and growing at a reasonable pace.
* I can theoretically have an unlimited number of MDBs publish to my CTY website, so there is room to grow. There is  room to give people their own piece of the website without giving them the cty file, which has no workgroup functionality whatsoever. Not being tied to the CTY table/field structure gives me enormous flexibility for growing the site.

HTML DbSCRIPT Version 1.5 is the future of CityDesk. Lou is providing it as a free utility. Ask him for a copy to play with!

THANK YOU LOU :-)

Bob Bloom
Friday, April 16, 2004

Bob, I like CD *because* it makes "content management" much easier -- and your commentary above can lead one to believe otherwise -- although I do understand that is not your intention.

I was/am hoping that HTML DbScript v 1.5 would become a *seamless facilitator* enabling what you term as dynamic HTML page generation via CityDesk. From reading your observations I am left wondering how HTML DbScript would make my work with CD easier not harder. :-)

BTW, lately I have been playing with Opera and FireFox [due to a client request] and from my vantage point I am now *much* more convinced that Microsoft have done it "right" -- Why do I raise that issue? simply because it is a Microsoft computing world [for the most part] and a lot easier to CRAFT stuff for the Microsoft world than the alien world of Linux/Unix etc. MS Word is the de facto standard and the HTML that Word produces works absolutely great for ALL those that are Microsoft centric. My only wish is that CD WYSIWYG editor would provide much better integration with MS Word.

BTW, Opera7.3 and FireFox0.8 both have some great innovation built-in and from my perspective “both” would garner much greater market share if they *tried* to cater to the Microsoft masses versus the disgruntled legacy classes :-)

I do not know how successful CityDesk is – I read that Joel spends 50% of his time on programming issues related to CD from which I extrapolate that CD must be generating enough dollars to justify his time and effort. I also have zero idea who uses CityDesk, but I will make the assumption that the vast majority of paying customers are people who are Microsoft centric.

The business [technological] imperative is --"How do we make the world of computing easier for the masses". And those that understand that imperative make money. :-)

David Mozer
Saturday, April 17, 2004

David,

I love CD's templates, variables, scripting and publishing. Now I can couple these with content in CD articles, or in external databases. The choice is mine for whatever works better for me.

For example, it is much easier for me to input events into a db than in CD. Kudos to Lou for giving us this choice.

I'm not at issue with the Microsoft centric world. It would be wonderful to have a tool that strips out the style and span tags, using plain vanilla html tags instead to demarcate bold and italics.

Something for me to look into, how to get html into Access whether it's from Word, FrontPage, or notepad!

-Bob

Bob Bloom
Saturday, April 17, 2004

Bob, you plus many others perhaps might be interested in the following link that shows off *how* Microsoft uses CSS and HTML etc.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/workshop/author/css/reference/attributes.asp

Lost of excellent examples.

David Mozer
Sunday, April 18, 2004

The problems of getting content from Word seem to re-appear every so often here.  Last week I started playing with Tidy, and a tool called TidyGUI.exe.  I'm not sure where I got it, but I would imagine it isn't hard to find.

I created a short example file with word.  I saved it as html.  What follows is the html that Word created, followed by the html that tidyGUI.exe Produced by checking the configuration box that tells it that the input is from Word:

FROM WORD:
<html xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"
xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word"
xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">

<head>
<meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1252">
<meta name=ProgId content=Word.Document>
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 9">
<meta name=Originator content="Microsoft Word 9">
<link rel=File-List href="./WordHTMLTestFile_files/filelist.xml">
<title>Here is an H1</title>
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:DocumentProperties>
  <o:Author>jcg</o:Author>
  <o:LastAuthor>jcg</o:LastAuthor>
  <o:Revision>1</o:Revision>
  <o:TotalTime>2</o:TotalTime>
  <o:Created>2004-04-18T15:27:00Z</o:Created>
  <o:LastSaved>2004-04-18T15:29:00Z</o:LastSaved>
  <o:Pages>1</o:Pages>
  <o:Lines>1</o:Lines>
  <o:Paragraphs>1</o:Paragraphs>
  <o:Version>9.3821</o:Version>
</o:DocumentProperties>
</xml><![endif]-->
<style>
<!--
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
    {mso-style-parent:"";
    margin:0in;
    margin-bottom:.0001pt;
    mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
    font-size:12.0pt;
    font-family:"Times New Roman";
    mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";}
@page Section1
    {size:8.5in 11.0in;
    margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;
    mso-header-margin:.5in;
    mso-footer-margin:.5in;
    mso-paper-source:0;}
div.Section1
    {page:Section1;}
/* List Definitions */
@list l0
    {mso-list-id:1511487120;
    mso-list-type:hybrid;
    mso-list-template-ids:-1846531428 67698703 67698713 67698715 67698703 67698713 67698715 67698703 67698713 67698715;}
ol
    {margin-bottom:0in;}
ul
    {margin-bottom:0in;}
-->
</style>
</head>

<body lang=EN-US style='tab-interval:.5in'>

<div class=Section1>

<p class=MsoNormal>Here is an H1</p>

<p class=MsoNormal><![if !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=MsoNormal>And and H2</p>

<p class=MsoNormal><![if !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=MsoNormal>This is a paragraph.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> 
</span>This is a paragraph.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </span>This is a
paragraph.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </span>This is a paragraph.<span
style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </span>This is a paragraph.<span
style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </span>This is a paragraph.<span
style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </span>This is a paragraph.<span
style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </span>This is a paragraph.<span
style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </span>This is a paragraph.<span
style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </span>This is a paragraph.<span
style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </span>This is a paragraph.<span
style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </span>This is a paragraph.<span
style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </span>This is a paragraph.<span
style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </span>This is a paragraph.<span
style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </span>This is a paragraph.<span
style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </span>This is a paragraph.<span
style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </span>This is a paragraph.<span
style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </span></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><![if !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=MsoNormal>And what follows is a list:</p>

<ol style='margin-top:0in' start=1 type=1>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;tab-stops:list .5in'>Item one</li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;tab-stops:list .5in'>Item 2</li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;tab-stops:list .5in'>Item 3</li>
</ol>

<p class=MsoNormal><![if !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=MsoNormal>Here is a final sentence</p>

</div>

</body>

</html>
-------------------------------------------------

From Tidy:

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
    "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
<head>
<meta name="generator" content="HTML Tidy, see www.w3.org" />
<title>Here is an H1</title>
</head>
<body>
<div>
<p>Here is an H1</p>

<p>And and H2</p>

<p>This is a paragraph.&nbsp; This is a paragraph.&nbsp; This is a
paragraph.&nbsp; This is a paragraph.&nbsp; This is a
paragraph.&nbsp; This is a paragraph.&nbsp; This is a
paragraph.&nbsp; This is a paragraph.&nbsp; This is a
paragraph.&nbsp; This is a paragraph.&nbsp; This is a
paragraph.&nbsp; This is a paragraph.&nbsp; This is a
paragraph.&nbsp; This is a paragraph.&nbsp; This is a
paragraph.&nbsp; This is a paragraph.&nbsp; This is a
paragraph.&nbsp;</p>

<p>And what follows is a list:</p>

<ol start="1" type="1">
<li>Item one</li>

<li>Item 2</li>

<li>Item 3</li>
</ol>

<p>Here is a final sentence</p>
</div>
</body>
</html>
----------------------------------

What a difference!

joel goldstick
Sunday, April 18, 2004

Joel, is this the "Word" HTML magic bullet we've been looking for?

tk
Sunday, April 18, 2004

So, with HTML DbScript you can generate HTML files withouth having to create articles inside CD? I tried it, but I thought you only could insert database information inside existing articles (or expand customized fields for each article, which is very handy -- for almost every type of site I can think of, the current extra fields are insufficient).

Actually, I think that CD's biggest problem is... it's ease of use! Those of us who understand the benefits of a dinamically generated site but who don't have the courage to tackle the whole PHP/ASP/SQL beast yet, begin using CD, and since its use is so clear and its documentation so well explained, we soon are planning to use it for projects that CD wasn't planned to handle. I hope CD3 addresses this segment's needs.

Meanwhile, I have realized that CD just isn't the tool for certain projects. I'm still lookung for for an alternative that uses templates, scripting capabilities and local databases, but most of them (like DB to HTML Express or WebMerge) lack flexibility. I found a promising tool in Queryweb (www.query-web.com), but the documentation is awful and there isn't a community of users that can help with the sometimes complicated scripting system, and it seems somewhat abandoned -- it works only with Access 97.

eloy
Monday, April 19, 2004

Joel,

Thank you for your TIDY post. Much appreciated. I downloaded TidyUI, and it's a help.

I converted DOC to HTML via MS HTML Cleaner 2.0 add-on. Then I TidyUI'd the html file. Then, a bit of manual cleaning. Sheesh! But the process is getting better.

Eloy, a key thing to remember is that the html must reside in a field in your external db. The stuff that is between the <BODY></BODY> tags. And all I want is clean, plain-vanilla html in my "HTML" field.

A SELECT statement within a ForEach statement fetches the records and fields from Access.

Lou added a new command in HTML DbScript 1.5 called "MakePage". It is within the ForEach/SELECT statement, and it creates a new page, using my "HTML" field. MakePage doesn't include CD templates, but that is forthcoming.

Gotta go!
-Bob

Bob Bloom
Monday, April 19, 2004

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